The Shroud of Turin

[The Mikado]

I know it's been proven that it's a forgery, but what is that thing?  I mean, it gives off a better image as a negative than as a photograph and it doesn't look like any 14th century painting I've ever seen.

Opinions?

[minionofmidas]

Túrin, son of Húrin? I never knew he had a shroud.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

[John Dibble]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

Yeah, it's absurd that God would want to leave evidence of the thing that he wants people to believe in. That would just be crazy.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

Yeah, it's absurd that God would want to leave evidence of the thing that he wants people to believe in. That would just be crazy.

faith

[bullmoose88]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

Yeah, it's absurd that God would want to leave evidence of the thing that he wants people to believe in. That would just be crazy.

faith

I guess Jmfcst has a point here, what's the point of having faith if God were to leave evidence that would prove x,y,z beyond a reasonable doubt (only an evil idiot would deny in such a case).

[John Dibble]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

Yeah, it's absurd that God would want to leave evidence of the thing that he wants people to believe in. That would just be crazy.

faith

I guess Jmfcst has a point here, what's the point of having faith if God were to leave evidence that would prove x,y,z beyond a reasonable doubt (only an evil idiot would deny in such a case).

I find the notion that a supposedly all-knowing, ultimately wise being who would create a universe that is based off of consistent rules that can be deduced through logic and reason would at the same time wish you to believe something when there's no logical reason to do so to be absurd.

[7,052,770]

Seriously, if the Shroud is real, that's lame.  It's supposed to be about faith.  If the Shroud is real, then obviously we should all be Christian.

[Stranger in a strange land]

The most likely answer is that it's a hoax from Late Antiquity or the Middle Ages.

The shroud is old and from the Near East. Prior to the appearance of the Shroud of Turin, there was a similar relic called the Image of Edessa on display in Constantinople. After Constantinople was sacked by the Crusaders in 1204, the Image of Edessa disappeared from the historical record, and it's thought by some that it later reappeared as the Shroud of Turin. However, recent radiocarbon dating casts doubt upon this hypothesis, and suggests that the shroud was produced in the late 13th or early 14th centuries. Defenders of the Edessa Image hypothesis counter that bacteria-associated residue in the shroud would make it seem younger than it actually is.

One possibility the reason it gives off such an eerie photographic negative is that it was created using a primitive photographic technique. It was once suggested that Leonardo Da Vinci may have created the shroud using a crude camera, though this is almost certainly false, as there are references to the Shroud in writings from before Leonardo's lifetime.

[Alcon]

Seriously, if the Shroud is real, that's lame.  It's supposed to be about faith.  If the Shroud is real, then obviously we should all be Christian.

I may be missing something obvious here, but why would that be?

It doesn't seem to me that the existence of a shroud would 'prove' Christianity either way.  Prove that Jesus existed, maybe...

what am I missing?

[7,052,770]

Seriously, if the Shroud is real, that's lame.  It's supposed to be about faith.  If the Shroud is real, then obviously we should all be Christian.

I may be missing something obvious here, but why would that be?

It doesn't seem to me that the existence of a shroud would 'prove' Christianity either way.  Prove that Jesus existed, maybe...

what am I missing?

The idea is that his face was burned onto the cloth during the resurrection.  Since that's obviously not possible, if it happened anyway, apparently Christianity is true, so it defeats the purpose of faith.

[Alcon]

Seriously, if the Shroud is real, that's lame.  It's supposed to be about faith.  If the Shroud is real, then obviously we should all be Christian.

I may be missing something obvious here, but why would that be?

It doesn't seem to me that the existence of a shroud would 'prove' Christianity either way.  Prove that Jesus existed, maybe...

what am I missing?

The idea is that his face was burned onto the cloth during the resurrection.  Since that's obviously not possible, if it happened anyway, apparently Christianity is true, so it defeats the purpose of faith.

A face couldn't have come to be imprinted on the shroud in some other way...?

And how would we verify it's Jesus's face?  It's not like "burned in by the force of GOD" is exactly something we can determine scientifically.

It still seems like it would require a lot of faith still, but Christianity has always been a little vague on the balance between "look at the obvious miracles of faith" and "ithat's the magic of faith" anyway.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

Which is why he left dinosaurs behind. To trick us into believing there is no God. What a sneaky God we have.

what do dinosaurs have to do with belief in God?

[GMantis]

the whole idea that God would leave behind a shred of physical evidence of Christ's resurrection is completely absurd.

Which is why he left dinosaurs behind. To trick us into believing there is no God. What a sneaky God we have.

what do dinosaurs have to do with belief in God?

Since many Christians believe that the World was made 6000 years ago, the existence of 65 million years old dinosaur fossils must be according to them a trick of God.