Should homeschooling be banned?

[War on Want]

Because I don't believe sheltering children is giving them liberty.

And it doesn't work into the lefts plan of brainwashing children either, isn't that right Mongo?

Were you ever in a public school? Just curious.

No, thank God. Catholic school for all 12 years.

Exactly, you have never experience one so you have no idea whether they brainwash or not and the answer is they don't. They are actually run quite well in a majority of areas and if you really believe the teaching is as crappy as it is then why would you think anyone would be brainwashed?

[??????????]

Because I don't believe sheltering children is giving them liberty.

And it doesn't work into the lefts plan of brainwashing children either, isn't that right Mongo?

Were you ever in a public school? Just curious.

No, thank God. Catholic school for all 12 years.

Exactly, you have never experience one so you have no idea whether they brainwash or not and the answer is they don't. They are actually run quite well in a majority of areas and if you really believe the teaching is as crappy as it is then why would you think anyone would be brainwashed?

Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with public schools my daughter goes to one. Of course the one she goes to is a charter school and it teaches religious values as well. However, it still is a public school. It's pretty good for a public school but of course they only take the really good kids from all the other crappy schools in the area. When my daughter went to one of those crappy public schools she was in first grade and they were already then trying to brainwash them with the global warming lie.

[War on Want]

Because I don't believe sheltering children is giving them liberty.

And it doesn't work into the lefts plan of brainwashing children either, isn't that right Mongo?

Were you ever in a public school? Just curious.

No, thank God. Catholic school for all 12 years.

Exactly, you have never experience one so you have no idea whether they brainwash or not and the answer is they don't. They are actually run quite well in a majority of areas and if you really believe the teaching is as crappy as it is then why would you think anyone would be brainwashed?

Actually, I have quite a bit of experience with public schools my daughter goes to one. Of course the one she goes to is a charter school and it teaches religious values as well. However, it still is a public school. It's pretty good for a public school but of course they only take the really good kids from all the other crappy schools in the area. When my daughter went to one of those crappy public schools she was in first grade and they were already then trying to brainwash them with the global warming lie.

lol You know greenhouse gases do exist right? I am not trying to be an asshole but I really don't remember ever being taught anything about global warming in first grade, just the idea that gas can pollute things(which it does). Well anyways I go to a Charter school too and I can say that the brainwashing works both ways, my Civics teacher was a hardcore Republican and taught what she believed to the class and to the point where it pissed me off severly and I argued quite a bit.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

[??????????]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

Dude, homeschooling existed even before US public schools.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Option 3.  As long as the students are being taught the state-required material (which they must pass a test on), then there is nothing wrong with homeschooling.  People that have a rose bush up their backside on this issue really need to get over themselves.

Then what is the point?

I agree with Storebought and Philip btw. Which makes me feel a little... odd. Only in America (and possibly Canada I'm unsure of the situation there) is home schooling associated with religion. Actually in Europe its usually seen as a left wing fad.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

Dude, homeschooling existed even before US public schools.

The situation has changed quite a bit since the 18th century. Now homeschooling is just a way for fundies to brainwash their kids no matter what idiotic crap Gully Foyle spews. He needs to go watch Jesus Camp.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

Dude, homeschooling existed even before US public schools.

The situation has changed quite a bit since the 18th century. Now homeschooling is just a way for fundies to brainwash their kids no matter what idiotic crap Gully Foyle spews. He needs to go watch Jesus Camp.

Can it change back?

I haven't seen Jesus Camp but I'm somewhat aware of what goes on. What's more interesting is how Protestant Millenarianism has survived and taken a very strong root in the United States but has died out elsewhere.

[Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon]

The vast majority of home-school parents care deeply about their child's education and I would hate to see a day when a parent did not have the choice to educate their children themselves.

[John Dibble]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

WHEEEEE!

http://secularhomeschool.net/
http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/
http://www.atheistview.com/secular_homeschool.htm

Get the point? Homeschooling isn't limited to just 'fundie crap' - there are both secular and religious families who use a secular homeschooling curriculum.


Anyways, to answer the question I support option 2. Homeschooling should be an option, but the one doing the teaching needs to meet at least basic requirements.

[DownWithTheLeft]

No not at all.  The idea that is just religious fundies is also absurd, apparnetly all your information comes from South Park.  The bigger question is whether home schooled children should be allowed to play high school sports for their local school.  Our team got wrecked by a home schooler a few years ago and my coach still talks about it.

[CheeseWhiz]

Hahahaha

Ahaha

Haheehee

Ah... *wipes away tear from laughing*

Yes, let's ban the schooling system where the teachers have a higher stake in how well their students do and, because they have a smaller class, can address each ones individual needs far more easily.

I'm sure public and private schools have their benefits, (I wouldn't know,) but homeschooling has always been fantastic for me.  It's more flexible and can more easily accommodate my needs; like if I'm interested in politics, I can go get more material on politics and use more of my time to study it.  No history quiz on Tuesday I'm going to have to study for instead, as long as I've got a basic grasp of history and a real true interest in my political studies, my teachers support that.

I'm just not one to do things in groups, I need individual attention.  How on earth would I get that in a public school system?  I'd probably start failing due to boredom and my parents would have to hire a tutor or something.  I'd more than likely hate it and wind up some rebel on the streets cursing authority and telling strangers how the Government is putting microchips in all our brains.  That's not right, that's what this forum is for!

Also, I can't really understand how the "religious fundamentalist parenting" argument applies.  Yeah, it exists, and yeah, some of them do definitely homeschool.  But, they're gonna exist with or without it, your not getting rid of them, and ruining something for everyone just because of a few bad apples is about the worst thing you can do.  It's called throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and you guys don't want to make more babies homeless, do you?

A more offensive measure would be difficult to imagine.

I gotta agree with that.

Exactly, you have never experience one so you have no idea whether they brainwash or not and the answer is they don't. They are actually run quite well in a majority of areas and if you really believe the teaching is as crappy as it is then why would you think anyone would be brainwashed?

The reverse is true for most, if not all, of these "Oh NoEZ, the sHELterInG!" people.

Option 3.  As long as the students are being taught the state-required material (which they must pass a test on), then there is nothing wrong with homeschooling.  People that have a rose bush up their backside on this issue really need to get over themselves.

Then what is the point?

I agree with Storebought and Philip btw. Which makes me feel a little... odd. Only in America (and possibly Canada I'm unsure of the situation there) is home schooling associated with religion. Actually in Europe its usually seen as a left wing fad.

I agree, standardized testing is one of the many things wrong with a public school system.  The attempts and successes of forcing homeschoolers to take a similar test is pretty disgusting, IMO.  Alas, you don't have to worry, most states I know require it or something close anyway.

Also, while both my parents are religious, (well, more spiritual than religious, but whatever,) I'd definitely categorize us more as the liberal hippy type than zealots   In fact, one of the few reasons my parents vote for Republicans is because they tend to be more understanding of homeschoolers.

He needs to go watch Jesus Camp.

This, of course, paints an accurate picture of homeschooling as a whole.  I always pray to cardboard cutouts of GWB!  I think the closest I was to being a "religious fundamentalist" was when I use to think gays should only have civil unions and was against legalized euthanasia.  That's probably socially to the left of about 2/3rds of Americans, (that's just a guess, BTW.)

Oh yeah, homeschooling is banned in Germany.  Germany.  You know, where the Nazis came from?  Yeah, that Germany.  Therefore, if you believe homeschooling should be banned you are a dirty commie.

[JohnFKennedy]

Only if the parent is certfied but I don't understand why some get all flustered up about banning it or even certifying parents. Sure I don't think it is wise to homeschool children and I don't think it helps kids at all but rather shelter them but it is not the government's job to decide what is best for your kid unless it is common knowlede.

With regards to certifying parents I think the process should be easy, straight forward and take a very small amount of time. They do not need to be trained extensivley but the government should provide a slew of resources to help parents teach their kids if they are homeschooled.

Why try to break down what's worked in human society for hundreds of years before government engineered thought factories?

That depends on what you mean by 'human society'.

[??????????]

Only if the parent is certfied but I don't understand why some get all flustered up about banning it or even certifying parents. Sure I don't think it is wise to homeschool children and I don't think it helps kids at all but rather shelter them but it is not the government's job to decide what is best for your kid unless it is common knowlede.

With regards to certifying parents I think the process should be easy, straight forward and take a very small amount of time. They do not need to be trained extensivley but the government should provide a slew of resources to help parents teach their kids if they are homeschooled.

Why try to break down what's worked in human society for hundreds of years before government engineered thought factories?

That depends on what you mean by 'human society'.

Normal, civilized, western society.

[dead0man]

I agree with Storebought and Philip btw. Which makes me feel a little... odd. Only in America (and possibly Canada I'm unsure of the situation there) is home schooling associated with religion. Actually in Europe its usually seen as a left wing fad.

It's NOT just a religious thing, the left in this country just like to paint that it is (which is why they are against it.  Bitching about how it will make for socially awkward children is just reasoning after they've made up their mind on the subject).  Many NON-fundies home school their kids, ignorance from Democrats isn't going to change that reality.  I'm not sure how or why it's turned out this way, I would assume that the left would be for home schooling as well.  Some of the blame might go to the two major teachers unions being very much against it (they don't like competition), they have a decent amount of power.  That combined with the way the Fundies have embraced it is probably most of the reason the left is against it.  Now getthing them to admit as much, well that's the challenge.

[??????????]

I agree with Storebought and Philip btw. Which makes me feel a little... odd. Only in America (and possibly Canada I'm unsure of the situation there) is home schooling associated with religion. Actually in Europe its usually seen as a left wing fad.

It's NOT just a religious thing, the left in this country just like to paint that it is (which is why they are against it.  Bitching about how it will make for socially awkward children is just reasoning after they've made up their mind on the subject).  Many NON-fundies home school their kids, ignorance from Democrats isn't going to change that reality.  I'm not sure how or why it's turned out this way, I would assume that the left would be for home schooling as well.  Some of the blame might go to the two major teachers unions being very much against it (they don't like competition), they have a decent amount of power.  That combined with the way the Fundies have embraced it is probably most of the reason the left is against it.  Now getthing them to admit as much, well that's the challenge.

The other obvious reason is that if the left didn't have children in state run schools then they couldn't impress their political beliefs in the minds of our youth.

[Flying Dog]

I really don't care either way. It's fine, I guess.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

WHEEEEE!

http://secularhomeschool.net/
http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/
http://www.atheistview.com/secular_homeschool.htm

Get the point? Homeschooling isn't limited to just 'fundie crap' - there are both secular and religious families who use a secular homeschooling curriculum.

OK, so its used to indoctrinate kids into atheism instead of fundie crap. Same deal.

Oh yeah, homeschooling is banned in Germany.  Germany.  You know, where the Nazis came from?  Yeah, that Germany.  Therefore, if you believe homeschooling should be banned you are a dirty commie.

Germany = FF. Also disproving the crap Gully is spewing.

[JohnFKennedy]

Only if the parent is certfied but I don't understand why some get all flustered up about banning it or even certifying parents. Sure I don't think it is wise to homeschool children and I don't think it helps kids at all but rather shelter them but it is not the government's job to decide what is best for your kid unless it is common knowlede.

With regards to certifying parents I think the process should be easy, straight forward and take a very small amount of time. They do not need to be trained extensivley but the government should provide a slew of resources to help parents teach their kids if they are homeschooled.

Why try to break down what's worked in human society for hundreds of years before government engineered thought factories?

That depends on what you mean by 'human society'.

Normal, civilized, western society.

That doesn't quite cut it. All three of those words are in themselves tricky. How do you define 'civilized' or even 'normal' and what are these particular values and issues that mark out 'western society'? The point is, while private education and homeschooling may have worked for some in society prior to the introduction of a state education system, it didn't work for everyone, a point which is easily verifiable by looking at historic rates of formal education, literacy and numeracy.

Oh yeah, homeschooling is banned in Germany.  Germany.  You know, where the Nazis came from?  Yeah, that Germany.  Therefore, if you believe homeschooling should be banned you are a dirty commie.

Germany = FF. Also disproving the crap Gully is spewing.

How? He said in Europe it tends to be seen as being a left-wing fad. There's nothing in it being banned in Germany to suggest he's wrong there. Your personal obsessions seem to blind you to what people say. In fact, I know a girl who has lived in both the UK and the US who was homeschooled during middle school as her family decided they wanted to travel and see the world instead. They are far from right-wing and I don't think they were instilling religious values as well.

[7,052,770]

Option 2 would be a nice compromise, though it really should be option 1.

[CheeseWhiz]

Oh yeah, homeschooling is banned in Germany.  Germany.  You know, where the Nazis came from?  Yeah, that Germany.  Therefore, if you believe homeschooling should be banned you are a dirty commie.

Germany = FF. Also disproving the crap Gully is spewing.

Because limiting choices you don't like = Freedom Fighting.  If you can read this you are standing too close to your computer screen

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, (what?  I didn't say I was trying very hard!) but don't you think that logic is just a little bit off?

How? He said in Europe it tends to be seen as being a left-wing fad. There's nothing in it being banned in Germany to suggest he's wrong there. Your personal obsessions seem to blind you to what people say. In fact, I know a girl who has lived in both the UK and the US who was homeschooled during middle school as her family decided they wanted to travel and see the world instead. They are far from right-wing and I don't think they were instilling religious values as well.

Exactly!  Want to admit it or not, homeschooling gives families more liberty to travel, spend time together, eat together, etc. and there's absolutely nothing malicious about that.

[Flying Dog]

Why do I get the feeling that some people in this tread would be making an argument against compulsory education if we were thinking of enacting it today?

[CheeseWhiz]

Why do I get the feeling that some people in this tread would be making an argument against compulsory education if we were thinking of enacting it today?

Because some probably would, myself being foremost among them.  However, this post runs a high risk a hijacking this thread, so if you seriously want to debate the issue, I'd suggest creating a new one.

[John Dibble]

Absolutely. It's stupid fundie crap.

WHEEEEE!

http://secularhomeschool.net/
http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/
http://www.atheistview.com/secular_homeschool.htm

Get the point? Homeschooling isn't limited to just 'fundie crap' - there are both secular and religious families who use a secular homeschooling curriculum.

OK, so its used to indoctrinate kids into atheism instead of fundie crap. Same deal.

You do realize that public schools are secular, right? Also, note the bold part above. Just because a curriculum is secular doesn't mean atheism is being shoved down anyone's throat.

[Nym90]

The vast majority of home-school parents care deeply about their child's education and I would hate to see a day when a parent did not have the choice to educate their children themselves.

Very much agreed.

It depends on the parents of course....and I'd caution anyone as to the potential problems of homeschooling if they asked my advice on whether to do it....but ultimately it should be up to the parents.