TR wins in 1912
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #175 on: June 18, 2008, 03:23:37 PM »


The First Term of Claude Pepper

Following his swearing in by Chief Justice Black, a former ally in the Senate, President Pepper delivers his Inaugural Address.  In it, he declares that “For the last 8 years, Americans have sacrificed butter for guns.  That ends today.”  The Pepper White House, he declares, will focus on domestic policy, rather than the foreign focus of the previous 8 years.

In a speech to Congress in early April, Pepper presents his major goals for his first term.  They include statehood for Alaska and Hawaii, as well as several civil rights bills, including an abolition of segregation, and the poll tax.

The first major issue is statehood for Alaska and Hawaii.  Although there is little opposition for Alaska, Hawaii becomes a major problem, as Dixiecrats in both Houses fear the Hawaiians as a likely vote to end cloture, and they announce they will filibuster any attempt to make Hawaii a state.  With little incentive from the White House, Senate Majority Leader Alben Barkley of Kentucky decides to withdraw the statehood bill, in order to focus on more important issues.

Although popular when it was made, the “Pepper Pledge” to focus on domestic rather than foreign policy comes back to haunt the President when, on August 18, 1949, Communist forces led by Mao Zedong in China overthrow the government led by Chiang Kai-shek, who flees to the island of Formosa.  Despite requests from Kai-shek and numerous members of Congress, Pepper refuses to send troops to help the US’s ally, leading to charges that the President “lost China.”

In his State of the Union speech on January 28, 1950, Pepper introduces two major pieces of legislation: the Civil Rights Act of 1950, and the Poll Tax Act of 1950.  The Civil Rights Act would, among other things, abolish segregation, protect voting rights, and end discrimination in housing and hiring practices.  The Poll Tax Act is much simpler: it would abolish the poll tax in every state.

On February 1, debate begins on the Civil Rights Act of 1950.  The first speech is given by Senator James Eastland (D-MS), who calls the Act, “A rape on the Constitution; a true abomination.”  He is followed by Senator Richard B. Russell Jr. (D-GA), who calls it, “An unfortunate and unwise act of political opportunism.”  Senator Huey Long (POP-LA), says, “We are attempting to force the political views of one region down the throats of another, simply because someone is trying to score political points.”

The Bill does, however, have some supporters.  Senator Wayne Morse (P-OR), says, “This bill is long overdue.  The South has abused their rights as sovereign states, and now we must step in!”  Senator Irving Ives (P-NY), says, “The South can cry foul as much as they want.  The truth is, all Americans are equal, no matter how much the South will deny it.”  However, the most poignant statement is by Senator Hubert H. Humphrey (FL-MN), who says, on May 3, 1950, “The time has come for the United States to get out of the shadow of states' rights and walk forthrightly into the bright sunshine of human rights!”  This speech, widely considered one of the greatest ever given on the floor of the Senate, brings many non-Southern members to tears.

The next day, Majority Leader Barkley calls for cloture.  With 67 votes needed, the measure fails miserably, with 41 votes for cloture, and 55 votes against.  The leader of the Southern forces, Senator Tom Connally (D-TX), says, “Today is a great today for Americans everywhere.  Hopefully, the Government has now learned that it cannot walk all over the States.”

In early August, Pepper travels to London for an annual economic conference.  While there, he meets with French leader Charles de Gaulle and UK Prime Minister Clement Atlee about a possible organization that would serve a peacekeeping purpose worldwide, so as to prevent any other Wars similar to the two World Wars fought in the last 30 years.  Both men show interest, and arrange to meet again following the November US elections.

The 1950 Congressional Elections

With Pepper’s approval ratings at a pathetic 37% on election day, the Democrats suffer massive losses.

House Results:
Democrats: 210 (-48)
Progressives: 114 (+34)
Republicans: 88 (+8)
Farmer-Labor: 23 (+6)

Senate Results:
Democrats: 47 (-14)
Progressives: 26 (+6)
Republicans: 14 (+4)
Populist: 7 (+4)
Farmer-Labor: 2 (-)
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« Reply #176 on: June 18, 2008, 04:08:01 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]
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YRABNNRM
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« Reply #177 on: June 18, 2008, 04:09:51 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]

So what if it's unlikely? It's his timeline; let him do with it what he wishes.
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« Reply #178 on: June 18, 2008, 04:11:38 PM »

Correct, I could stop commenting and reading it altogether.

In addition, he doesn't seem to care, so I'll stop. You're right.
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YRABNNRM
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« Reply #179 on: June 18, 2008, 04:14:01 PM »

Correct, I could stop commenting and reading it altogether.

Or you could just read it for entertainment or are you the type to watch a movie and constantly point out inaccuracies instead of just sitting back and enjoying the show?

It's a "what-if" piece of fiction, not a passage from a text book. Let's just enjoy this well written piece.
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« Reply #180 on: June 18, 2008, 04:18:20 PM »

Correct, I could stop commenting and reading it altogether.

Or you could just read it for entertainment or are you the type to watch a movie and constantly point out inaccuracies instead of just sitting back and enjoying the show?

It's a "what-if" piece of fiction, not a passage from a text book. Let's just enjoy this well written piece.

You're sounding like gporter.
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YRABNNRM
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« Reply #181 on: June 18, 2008, 04:19:03 PM »

Correct, I could stop commenting and reading it altogether.

Or you could just read it for entertainment or are you the type to watch a movie and constantly point out inaccuracies instead of just sitting back and enjoying the show?

It's a "what-if" piece of fiction, not a passage from a text book. Let's just enjoy this well written piece.

You're sounding like gporter.

uh ok.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #182 on: June 18, 2008, 04:28:46 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]

I understand that.  By "they" I meant the voting public.
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« Reply #183 on: June 18, 2008, 04:32:44 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]

I understand that.  By "they" I meant the voting public.

But how did the semi-presidential system come about?
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Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
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« Reply #184 on: June 18, 2008, 04:37:06 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]

I understand that.  By "they" I meant the voting public.

But how did the semi-presidential system come about?

Around 1942, when France entered WWII, a new Constitution was proposed by a group of French political scientists; they figured a strong executive was needed during war time.  It was ratified around 1944, and the military hero de Gaulle was elected the first President.
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« Reply #185 on: June 18, 2008, 05:00:41 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]

I understand that.  By "they" I meant the voting public.

But how did the semi-presidential system come about?

Around 1942, when France entered WWII, a new Constitution was proposed by a group of French political scientists; they figured a strong executive was needed during war time.  It was ratified around 1944, and the military hero de Gaulle was elected the first President.

Good base there, but remember that the establishment didn't want de Gaulle too much by that time in OTL. The parties feared authoritarianism in a system with a strong president.

[How was the President elected? Direct election came in 1962, in fact de Gaulle was indirectly elected in 1958.]
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« Reply #186 on: June 18, 2008, 05:03:22 PM »

FTR, I'm not saying scrap the current French government. Voters might have approved it, but expect a strong opposition to a presidential system by the MRP and other establishment parties.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #187 on: June 18, 2008, 08:26:37 PM »

So they skipped the Fourth Republic altogether and de Gaulle came to power? Very, Very unlikely.

de Gaulle came to power through the military; it was decided that they wanted a military man to be in the Presidency, and so they picked de Gaulle.

Which is very unlikely, too. [and who is "they"? the military?. Doubtful they would have done that after a war. The PCF, MRP, SFIO and so forth wouldn't live peacefully with a coup. Especially the SFIO and PCF]

I understand that.  By "they" I meant the voting public.

But how did the semi-presidential system come about?

Around 1942, when France entered WWII, a new Constitution was proposed by a group of French political scientists; they figured a strong executive was needed during war time.  It was ratified around 1944, and the military hero de Gaulle was elected the first President.

Good base there, but remember that the establishment didn't want de Gaulle too much by that time in OTL. The parties feared authoritarianism in a system with a strong president.

[How was the President elected? Direct election came in 1962, in fact de Gaulle was indirectly elected in 1958.]


The President is elected by the same system that he is currently elected, which is a direct election.  There has been some variation, so France in 1950 operates under the same system as France today.
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« Reply #188 on: June 19, 2008, 05:48:56 AM »

Is there a major anti-presidential system opposition?
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« Reply #189 on: June 19, 2008, 08:46:11 AM »

what about what happens if TR doesn't run. THEN who wins, Woodrow or Taft?
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #190 on: June 19, 2008, 08:58:10 AM »

Is there a major anti-presidential system opposition?

There was at first, but it has lessened as time has gone by.
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« Reply #191 on: June 19, 2008, 09:01:47 AM »

Is there a major anti-presidential system opposition?

There was at first, but it has lessened as time has gone by.

Is the MRP a major party?

(de Gaulle's party probably wouldn't be named UNR in this. More like RPF or something).
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #192 on: June 19, 2008, 09:04:32 AM »

Is there a major anti-presidential system opposition?

There was at first, but it has lessened as time has gone by.

Is the MRP a major party?

(de Gaulle's party probably wouldn't be named UNR in this. More like RPF or something).

Yes, they are.
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« Reply #193 on: June 19, 2008, 09:08:33 AM »

Is there a major anti-presidential system opposition?

There was at first, but it has lessened as time has gone by.

Is the MRP a major party?

(de Gaulle's party probably wouldn't be named UNR in this. More like RPF or something).

Yes, they are.


So the major parties are still Gaullists, SFIO/FGDS (I assume the PS is not founded yet, as it was founded in 1972 in OTL), PCF, and MRP?

[Is the PCF still a far-left independent party or is there some type of Union de la Gauche?]
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #194 on: June 19, 2008, 09:25:52 AM »

Is there a major anti-presidential system opposition?

There was at first, but it has lessened as time has gone by.

Is the MRP a major party?

(de Gaulle's party probably wouldn't be named UNR in this. More like RPF or something).

Yes, they are.


So the major parties are still Gaullists, SFIO/FGDS (I assume the PS is not founded yet, as it was founded in 1972 in OTL), PCF, and MRP?

[Is the PCF still a far-left independent party or is there some type of Union de la Gauche?]

Yes and yes.
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« Reply #195 on: June 19, 2008, 09:26:50 AM »

Merci.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #196 on: June 19, 2008, 09:35:15 AM »


Glad I could help.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #197 on: June 22, 2008, 02:11:28 PM »
« Edited: June 22, 2008, 07:37:55 PM by benconstine »

Beginning on January 6, 1951, at the home of former President Roosevelt in Hyde Park, New York, a group including President Pepper, President de Gaulle of France, Prime Minister Atlee and former Prime Minister Winston Churchill of the United Kingdom, Senate Finance Chairman Harry Byrd (D-VA), Foreign Relations Chairman Walter George (D-GA), Democratic Leader Alben Barkley (D-KY), Progressive Leader Robert LaFollette (P-WI), Republican Leader Bob Taft (R-OH), Secretary of State Dean Acheson, Secretary of War George Marshal, and Secretary of the Treasury Fred Vinson meet to discuss a possible economic and military union between the free and democratic countries of the world.

On January 20, after two weeks of intense discussions, the troika of state leaders announce their plans: a military alliance known as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NATO, and a more diplomatic organization, called the United Nations. 

President Pepper submits both resolutions to the Senate for ratification.  The UN charter passes with little opposition, and the US joins the UN officially on February 18.

NATO, however, had more opposition, primarily from Senator Taft and his band of isolationists, or, “Stupid, blind isolationists”, in the words of former President Roosevelt.  The group of about 20 men, having strongly opposed US entry into World War II, were determined to prevent the US from entering into a long term military alliance.

For almost 6 weeks, a heated debate rages in the Senate, despite the appearance of civility.  Senator Richard B. Russell (D-GA), one of the Treaty’s strongest supporters, appears on the floor day after day, giving impassioned speeches favoring the Treaty.  Senator Taft, equally strong in his opposition to the Treaty, does the same.

On April 2, 1951, the Senate votes on the Treaty.  With 64 votes needed to pass the Treaty, Pepper is guaranteed 55 votes.  When the roll is completed, with only 1 Senator absent, 63 votes are for the Treaty, and 32 against, causing the Treaty to fail.  However, at the last possible second, Senator Harley Kilgore (D-WV), who had been absent due to his passing out on his office couch, appears on the floor of the Senate, and casts the deciding vote in favor of the Treaty, passing it by exactly the necessary margin.

On April 29, 1951, President Pepper once again pushes for a Civil Rights Bill.  He introduces the Civil Rights Bill of 1951, which was essentially the same Bill that had failed in 1949.

As in 1949, the Dixiecrats in the Senate rally against the Bill.  “I have seen the Southland trampled once, and I will not see it happen again,” declares Senator Olin Johnston (D-SC).  “I defy any do-gooder who would attempt to pass this legislation to enforce it,” says Senator John Little McClellan (D-AR).

Again, the Bill has its supporters.  One of the strongest, again, is Hubert Humphrey (FL-MN), who makes speech after speech supporting the Bill.  Also behind Humphrey are Paul Douglas (D-IL), Warren Magnuson (D-WA), and Herbert Lehman (P-NY).

On June 22, 1951, the Senate votes on cloture.  Despite the optimistic signs before the vote, cloture fails, 47-49.  Once again, Pepper fails to even get a majority for cloture.

On July 4, on the advice of Secretary of War George Marshal, Pepper issues an executive order desegregating the armed forces.  The decision is met with shock and anger, especially in the South, where Governor Strom Thurmond (D-SC), declares, “There’s not enough troops in the army to force the Southern people to break down segregation and admit the negro race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches!”  Governor Herman Talmadge (D-GA) says, “The President has made his decision, now let him enforce it.”

In September, the President again pushes statehood for Alaska and Hawaii.  Although there is no opposition to statehood for Alaska, it is made clear that Hawaii will not be made a state; after Pepper makes it clear he will veto Alaska if it does not include Hawaii, the idea is dropped.

In his State of the Union on January 28, 1952, Pepper announces that he will seek a second term.  He also pushes for another Civil Rights Bill, saying that the time has come.

In early 1952, acting on the advice of an independent committee chaired by Senator Richard B. Russell (D-GA), President Pepper reorganized the War Department, merging the departments of Navy, Army, and newly created Air Force into the new Department of Defense.  In the same massive reorganization, the Secretary of War was replaced by the Secretary of the Army and, along with the Secretary of the Navy and the new Secretary of the Air Force, became non-Cabinet positions placed under the Secretary of Defense.

In early April, there is an assassination attempt made on President Pepper by Puerto Rican nationalists.  Although he is unharmed, greater levels of security are placed around the President.

The 1952 Presidential Election

As the election season heats up, President Pepper is very vulnerable, with approval ratings at around 50%.

The 1952 Progressive National Convention

Shortly after the State of the Union address, Governor Earl Warren of California declares for the nomination.  An extremely popular Governor of a large state, he faces no opposition for the nomination, and selects Governor Tom Dewey of New York as his running mate.

The 1952 Democratic National Convention

Despite the odds of such a move succeeding highly unlikely, the Dixiecrats decide to nominate Senator Richard B. Russell of Georgia, opposing President Pepper.  When Pepper is nominated, the delegations from every state except Florida walk out of the Convention.

The 1952 Republican National Convention

Once again, the GOP nominate Robert Taft, and he selects Senator John Bricker of Ohio as his running mate.

The 1952 Dixiecrat National Convention

Gathering in Atlanta, Georgia, the Dixiecrats nominate Senator Richard Russell; Russell selects Governor Thurmond of South Carolina.

The 1952 Presidential Election

With a four man race, no one is sure who will win.  The major issue is which Party will finish fourth, and unable to compete in the House.  On election day, it goes to the House, with the GOP being left out.



Earl Warren/Tom Dewey: 30% PV, 217 EV
Richard Russell/Strom Thurmond: 18% PV, 118 EV
Claude Pepper/ Joseph C. O'Mahoney : 29% PV, 107 EV
Robert Taft/John Bricker: 23% PV, 89 EV

The 1952 Congressional Elections

In Congress, the Progressives make huge gains.

House Results:
Progressives: 170 (+56)
Democrats: 169 (-41)
Republicans: 70 (-18)
Farmer-Labor: 26 (+3)

Senate Results:
Progressives: 37 (+11)
Democrats: 34 (-13)
Republicans: 15 (+1)
Populist: 7 (-)
Farmer-Labor: 3 (+1)
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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #198 on: June 22, 2008, 03:28:14 PM »

VP Dewey, I suppose. And President Warren is also likely.
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War on Want
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« Reply #199 on: June 22, 2008, 03:30:45 PM »

I was rooting for Pepper but Warren or Dewey wouldn't be that bad.
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