Israel-Gaza war

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front. 

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

I mean, I think the US's moral authority comes from supporting Israel in its fight against Hamas. I just think that we can very easily bring this to an end by preventing aid from reaching Gaza; very very quickly fighters there will either run out of weaponry, since they are being resupplied by smuggling in materiel through aid, and then either surrender or starve. Ultimately, it is aid organizations like UNRWA (through schools) which keep Palestinian liberationism alive, and if we can destroy organizations like these, then we can end Palestinian liberationism for all time. There will be peace once the Palestinians celebrate Israel's war in this conflict as a necessary and liberatory one.

But the best way for the US to facilitate that -- I actually agree -- is not by sending weapons to the Israelis. It is by creating a world where nobody dares to send anything to the Palestinians.

Israel isn't fighting Hamas. It already lost.

Israel is just continuing to exact revenge on civilians to try to save face.

1) This doesn’t even make sense on its own terms.  Even if Israel was deliberately targeting civilians as opposed to fighting a war against an enemy whose strategy is based around aggressively working to maximize civilian casualties among its own people as much as possible, how would that save face?  

2) It’s pretty clear that you either don’t know or (more likely don’t care) what Hamas’ goals were here and are just tying yourself in knots trying to rationalize your weird fantasy about some imaginary Hamas victory.  We actually know what Hamas’ goals were here and the extend to which they succeeded or failed is very much a mixed bag:

A) From a military standpoint, by Hamas’ own admission, their primary goal was to trigger a genuine bona fide war (as opposed to just a flare up, something that has not occurred in Israel during millennials’ or zoomers’ lifetimes) and draw in far stronger potential allies to turn it into a broad regional war against Israel by bringing in order Hezbollah -> Lebanon proper -> Syria -> Iran into the conflict like dominoes.  

On the one hand, Hamas got their war.  On the other hand, by their own admission, they were banking on at minimum Hezbollah and ideally Iran joining the war (Hezbollah alone being infinitely stronger than Hamas militarily; even if Hamas constitutes a de facto army, the difference in strength is night and day).  And Israel almost got baited into truly going to war with Hezbollah due to bad intelligence.  Fortunately, in a major Biden win, the US pressured Netanyahu to hold off and it became clear Hezbollah was not planning some sort of surprise invasion of north Israel.  IIRC at the time, Hamas publicly expressed vocal disappointment and even low key alarm that Hezbollah decided to largely sit this one out.  

Additionally, like Syria, Iran was far too smart to get involved because they know that in a true war, Israel could wipe them out as easily as you or I might swat a fly if push truly came to shove.  It wouldn’t be a so-called video game war (at least against Iran, Syria would be more like the pre-occupation US invasion of Iraq when we were just fighting Saddam’s army), but the winner would never have been remotely in doubt.  And that’s assuming Israel got no foreign aid whatsoever, which is unlikely to say the least.  Moreover, while Iran and especially Syria have invested in Hezbollah in a big way, they don’t and never have cared about or even particularly liked the Palestinians except to the extent they can use them as a proxy to screw with Israel without risking serious military retaliation.  In terms of creating a broader regional war, this has all been a disastrous failure for Hamas.  

B) To thoroughly humiliate Netanyahu and the Israeli intelligence establishment.  Hamas unambiguously succeeded at this on October 7.  Anyone denying this is deluding themselves.  It was a wild success for Hamas on that front.  

C) To win a war of attrition with Israel by trading hostages for a ceasefire while using Israel’s historic reluctance to risk high civilian casualties against them.  This sort of thing has traditionally been a very successful strategy for Hamas with Israel doing things like trading over a thousand of high-level prisoners (including Yahya Sinwar) for one low-ranking soldier who was taken hostage.  While it’s too early to say how big a hit Hamas will take from this (so far Israel has only killed three of the top guys in Hamas and none of those were genuine big names, but the mid-tier leadership has been absolutely decimated), if Israel starts taking out folks like the Sinwar brothers, Dief, Issa, Mashel, and Hamiyah then you may see Hamas start collapsing albeit almost certainly replaced by a new group down the road.  

I think so far Isreal’s progress in decimating Hamas’ leadership has been unimpressive relative to expectations despite strong on the ground in terms of occupying land.  However, for better or worse, Netanyahu has clearly opted to abandon Israel’s historic strategy of hyper-targeted strikes and passing up chances to hit targets unless civilian collateral could be minimized.  So that was a tactical miscalculation by Hamas.

D) Hamas sought to rally Palestinians around it and defuse rising anger at its dismal failure to provide even basic municipal services in Gaza.  I think it certainly distracted Palestinians from that issue, but whether Palestinian civilians blame Israel and Hamas for the present situation or just Israel, I don’t know enough to say.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front.  

Even Joe Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist, admitted that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza.

1) Let’s say, just for discussion sake, that it were true that Israel was indiscriminately bombing Gaza with no concern whatsoever for military value of targets or lack thereof or potential civilian collateral and were doing this as a deliberate strategy (they’re not, but let’s say you are right and they are).  That would not be genocide in any way, shape, or form.  It would definitely be a brutal war crime, but it objectively would not be genocide.  That you seem to think it would be suggests you genuinely don’t understand what genocide is.  Yes, we all know you can Google the term and copy paste a definition, but you clearly don’t understand what it is or you’d have chosen an example of alleged conduct that…you know…would actually be genocide if Israel was doing it.

2) ROTFL.  I literally made that post as an experiment/test and boy did you flunk it.  I decided to make a lazy, one line drive by response with little-to-no thought put into it paired with a substantive, nuanced, detailed, and thoughtful response to your latest schtick and see what type of conversation you were actually looking to have in this thread.  Disappointingly, although unsurprisingly, you picked the one sentence section deliberately designed to be as devoid of substance as possible while not even acknowledging anything else in the post, much less actively engaging with it.  Really says a lot about what you’re looking to do here and none of it good.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front.  

Even Joe Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist, admitted that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza.

1) Let’s say, just for discussion sake, that it were true that Israel was indiscriminately bombing Gaza with no concern whatsoever for military value of targets or lack thereof or potential civilian collateral and were doing this as a deliberate strategy (they’re not, but let’s say you are right and they are).  That would not be genocide in any way, shape, or form.  It would definitely be a brutal war crime, but it objectively would not be genocide.  That you seem to think it would be suggests you genuinely don’t understand what genocide is.  Yes, we all know you can Google the term and copy paste a definition, but you clearly don’t understand what it is or you’d have chosen an example of alleged conduct that…you know…would actually be genocide if Israel was doing it.

2) ROTFL.  I literally made that post as an experiment/test and boy did you flunk it.  I decided to make a lazy, one line drive by response with little-to-no thought put into it paired with a substantive, nuanced, detailed, and thoughtful response to your latest schtick and see what type of conversation you were actually looking to have in this thread.  Disappointingly, although unsurprisingly, you picked the one sentence section deliberately designed to be as devoid of substance as possible while not even acknowledging anything else in the post, much less actively engaging with it.  Really says a lot about what you’re looking to do here and none of it good.

Since you don't agree with the United Nations's definition of genocide, define "genocide" for me.

You’re only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.  Just put down the shovel and admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front.  

Even Joe Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist, admitted that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza.

1) Let’s say, just for discussion sake, that it were true that Israel was indiscriminately bombing Gaza with no concern whatsoever for military value of targets or lack thereof or potential civilian collateral and were doing this as a deliberate strategy (they’re not, but let’s say you are right and they are).  That would not be genocide in any way, shape, or form.  It would definitely be a brutal war crime, but it objectively would not be genocide.  That you seem to think it would be suggests you genuinely don’t understand what genocide is.  Yes, we all know you can Google the term and copy paste a definition, but you clearly don’t understand what it is or you’d have chosen an example of alleged conduct that…you know…would actually be genocide if Israel was doing it.

2) ROTFL.  I literally made that post as an experiment/test and boy did you flunk it.  I decided to make a lazy, one line drive by response with little-to-no thought put into it paired with a substantive, nuanced, detailed, and thoughtful response to your latest schtick and see what type of conversation you were actually looking to have in this thread.  Disappointingly, although unsurprisingly, you picked the one sentence section deliberately designed to be as devoid of substance as possible while not even acknowledging anything else in the post, much less actively engaging with it.  Really says a lot about what you’re looking to do here and none of it good.

Since you don't agree with the United Nations's definition of genocide, define "genocide" for me.

You’re only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.  Just put down the shovel and admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Israel is denying visas to UN employees.

Coincidence?

The problem isn't that I don't know what genocide is.

The problem is that you don't know what genocide is.

The problem is that you don’t know what genocide is nor do you care because you’re only in this to cheerlead the mass murder of (((Jews))).  

Accusing anyone who doubts Israel is telling the unvarnished truth is not wanting to mass murder Jews. This is why Israel is losing the propaganda war. People who question you are not all filthy anti-semites who would have been Nazis in the 1940s, and it would do you and other supporters of Israel a lot of good to remember that.

I’m talking very specifically about pppolitics.  I’m not talking about you or making some generalization about pro-Palestinian folks.

If nuclear weapons are not so hard to make, then why don't you have any?

This question is so stupid that I am not even going to dignify it with an answer.

Dude, just be honest and admit that you want Hamas to murder all the (((Jews))).  No one who has even half a brain cell believes you’re not a rabid anti-Semite.  Then again, I suppose you did basically admit as much with your bizarre fantasizing about an imaginary Hamas victory.

Those are your words, not mine.

What I want is for the US to cut off aid to Israel.

What happens after that is no longer the US's problem.

Israel and Iran can blow each other up for all I care.

Press X to doubt

Since you are having a tough time reading between the lines, let me just tell you...

I am less concerned about Israel committing genocide.

I am more concerned about the US being complicit in Israel committing genocide.

If the US stops sending aid to Israel and covering its ass, then it's much harder to argue that the US is being complicit.

It's hard to claim moral authority around the world when one is being complicit in a genocide.

Luckily, Israel isn’t committing genocide, so no worries on that front.  

Even Joe Biden, a self-proclaimed Zionist, admitted that Israel is indiscriminately bombing Gaza.

1) Let’s say, just for discussion sake, that it were true that Israel was indiscriminately bombing Gaza with no concern whatsoever for military value of targets or lack thereof or potential civilian collateral and were doing this as a deliberate strategy (they’re not, but let’s say you are right and they are).  That would not be genocide in any way, shape, or form.  It would definitely be a brutal war crime, but it objectively would not be genocide.  That you seem to think it would be suggests you genuinely don’t understand what genocide is.  Yes, we all know you can Google the term and copy paste a definition, but you clearly don’t understand what it is or you’d have chosen an example of alleged conduct that…you know…would actually be genocide if Israel was doing it.

2) ROTFL.  I literally made that post as an experiment/test and boy did you flunk it.  I decided to make a lazy, one line drive by response with little-to-no thought put into it paired with a substantive, nuanced, detailed, and thoughtful response to your latest schtick and see what type of conversation you were actually looking to have in this thread.  Disappointingly, although unsurprisingly, you picked the one sentence section deliberately designed to be as devoid of substance as possible while not even acknowledging anything else in the post, much less actively engaging with it.  Really says a lot about what you’re looking to do here and none of it good.

Since you don't agree with the United Nations's definition of genocide, define "genocide" for me.

You’re only digging yourself into an even deeper hole.  Just put down the shovel and admit that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Israel is denying visas to UN employees.

Coincidence?

The problem isn't that I don't know what genocide is.

The problem is that you don't know what genocide is.

The problem is that you don’t know what genocide is nor do you care because you’re only in this to cheerlead the mass murder of (((Jews))).  

When you are making a full-throated accusation like that, you better have a lot of evidence to back it up.

Your posting history is sufficient evidence as far as I’m concerned.  Hell, your posting history in this thread is sufficient evidence.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Mr. X has also accused me of antisemitism with no evidence, and has called me a self hating Jew. The fact that he resorts to such nasty personal attacks is sickening.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it may just be a duck.  If you don’t want people to think you might be a self-hating Jew, maybe don’t display rabid, foaming at the mouth contempt for the idea that anti-Semitism is a bad and dangerous thing.  I call them as I see them and I take folks as they come.  You’re not here to play nice or have substantive discourse nor have you ever been.  You’re here to draw blood on anyone who disagrees with you and you’ve never hesitated to go scorched earth to achieve this goal without provocation.  

As such, the gloves come off when we butt heads.  I give my unvarnished opinion of you and I don’t hold back because of how aggressively and mean-spiritedly you behave whenever you disagree with someone on this stuff, so spare me the false outrage.  I have you on ignore most of the time because I don’t like talking to folks this way even when, as in your case, I believe they richly deserve it.

I don’t say any of this as a personal attack, I’m just stating the facts as I see them.  I don’t expect you to agree.  In any case, if you don’t want the part, then don’t audition for it; know what I mean?  It has nothing to do with your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and everything to do with how you talk about anti-semitism, especially your tone when doing so.

You are falsely equating criticisms of Israel with anti-semitism

I've also had plenty of substantive discourse in my time on this forum.

Basically he doesn't like my tone, but can't point to a single example of me actually being the bigot he claims. Also why did he do the post and delete? Weird.

I fat-thumbed it by accident.

Mr. X has also accused me of antisemitism with no evidence, and has called me a self hating Jew. The fact that he resorts to such nasty personal attacks is sickening.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it may just be a duck.  If you don’t want people to think you might be a self-hating Jew, maybe don’t display rabid, foaming at the mouth contempt for the idea that anti-Semitism is a bad and dangerous thing.  I call them as I see them and I take folks as they come.  You’re not here to play nice or have substantive discourse nor have you ever been.  You’re here to draw blood on anyone who disagrees with you and you’ve never hesitated to go scorched earth to achieve this goal without provocation.  

As such, the gloves come off when we butt heads.  I give my unvarnished opinion of you and I don’t hold back because of how aggressively and mean-spiritedly you behave whenever you disagree with someone on this stuff, so spare me the false outrage.  I have you on ignore most of the time because I don’t like talking to folks this way even when, as in your case, I believe they richly deserve it.

I don’t say any of this as a personal attack, I’m just stating the facts as I see them.  I don’t expect you to agree.  In any case, if you don’t want the part, then don’t audition for it; know what I mean?  It has nothing to do with your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and everything to do with how you talk about anti-semitism, especially your tone when doing so.

I could dig up specific examples, Horus, but why waste time when you’re only here to post in substance-free bad-faith?

Mr. X has also accused me of antisemitism with no evidence, and has called me a self hating Jew. The fact that he resorts to such nasty personal attacks is sickening.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it may just be a duck.  If you don’t want people to think you might be a self-hating Jew, maybe don’t display rabid, foaming at the mouth contempt for the idea that anti-Semitism is a bad and dangerous thing.  I call them as I see them and I take folks as they come.  You’re not here to play nice or have substantive discourse nor have you ever been.  You’re here to draw blood on anyone who disagrees with you and you’ve never hesitated to go scorched earth to achieve this goal without provocation.  

As such, the gloves come off when we butt heads.  I give my unvarnished opinion of you and I don’t hold back because of how aggressively and mean-spiritedly you behave whenever you disagree with someone on this stuff, so spare me the false outrage.  I have you on ignore most of the time because I don’t like talking to folks this way even when, as in your case, I believe they richly deserve it.

I don’t say any of this as a personal attack, I’m just stating the facts as I see them.  I don’t expect you to agree.  In any case, if you don’t want the part, then don’t audition for it; know what I mean?  It has nothing to do with your views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and everything to do with how you talk about anti-semitism, especially your tone when doing so.

You are falsely equating criticisms of Israel with anti-semitism

Imagine actually believing this

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

snip

I'm not sure what you think is bad faith. You have made outlandish statements about me being a self hating Jew and are now trying to call pppolitics a bigot even though he is only guilty of a. being overexcited and b. disagreeing with you.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that you tend to operate with a guilty until proven innocent mentality. We saw this in 2020 when you supported Matt Lieberman until the bitter end because you were completely convinced that Rev. Warnock was a liar and had intentionally driven over his ex wife's foot. This is a scary and un-American trait.

I mean, that whole narrative of yours right there is a lie.  I briefly said Lieberman seemed like the least bad of several absolutely awful candidates, but switched to strongly supporting Warnock as soon as it became clear that the allegations about him running over his wife’s foot were debunked.  And I never particularly liked Matt Lieberman and had long ago stopped even nominally supporting him.  But you knew that already.  

P.S.: I am not trying to call ppprogress a bigot.  I am calling him an anti-Semitic bigot for aggressively cheerleading Hamas.

Anyway, done with this conversation for now.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

One thing I would like to add.

Let me present the following axioms that I would guess most anti-Israel liberals would agree with:

1) Hamas is an evil organization, and their elimination would be a great good for the world

2) What Hamas did on October 7 was so egregiously evil that it makes their destruction a matter of immediate urgency

3) The only way to destroy Hamas is via military action

4) Israel has been genocidal, or at least indiscriminate and brutal, in their treatment of the Palestinians over the course of this conflict, in a way that is completely unnecessary and avoidable

5) Israel's conduct is so abhorrent that in the great value tradeoff, it is better for them to end operations (allowing Hamas to continue to exist) than to continue operations (committing more atrocities)

#3 is wrong.

Hamas can never be destroyed militarily since it is as much an ideology as a militant group.

The only way to destroy Hamas is for the people to reject it.

Instead, Israel is driving people right into Hamas's arms.

No, Hamas is a terrorist group that was created 35 years ago during the First Intafada.  What is its ideology that can't be destroyed?  "We hate the Jews, let's use military force to kill them all"?  That's been the ideology of the Arabs in the Levant region since before the founding of Israel.  It predates Hamas by millenia.

Actually the power and popularity of that ideology has waned substantially since the days of the Camp David Accords, which shows that it can be defeated.  But an ideology alone isn't enough to kill people -- you need an organized, well-funded, well-armed, well-trained violent group with the means to act on that ideology.  Which is what Hamas is.

Take that away and you just have a bunch of dudes full of hatred but without the means to rape women, kill men, torture the elderly, and kidnap children that Hamas has.

What most Palestinians want is the same as what most people want: comfy lives and good jobs.

If people reject Hamas, then it can't hide among the population.

Once it can't hide, it can be targeted and destroyed.

For that to happen, the Palestinians have to believe that their best days have yet to come (upward mobility) and that the Israeli government is legitimate as opposed to a Zionist organization bent on stealing their lands.

If the Palestinians had an Anwar Sadat who would recognize Israel on its 1967 borders under the condition that Israel withdraw from the West Bank (at least all settlements far from the Israel/West Bank border that could not be part of a viable land swap), I think Israel would face significant pressure from the US, NATO countries AND many liberal Jews. Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan could fund a Palestinian state. Of course this is easier with both Hamas and Netanyahu out of the picture.

But this is how the Palestinians get comfy lives and good jobs, not the pipe dream of 1948 borders.

There has to be compensation for Nakba.

In other words, those who were displaced and their descendants get cash payment in exchange for giving up their rights to return.

The compensation needs to be of real value, not a penny per square meter.

If they refuse, I guess there are some rural desert areas in Israel that they can be given.

Israel offered considerable compensation in 2000 and would probably up the offer in exchange for a genuine peace agreement. Arafat refused to give up the right to return at that time but talks collapsed soonafter.

Arafat doesn't matter.

The choice should be left to those who were displaced and their descendants.

What do they want? Cash compensation or right to return?

Right of return is not and never will be on the table.  Deal with it

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

How far are we from the Final Solution to the Palestinian Question?

Dude, drop the blood libel and just admit that you’re a rabid anti-Semite.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

Well, it certainly foes seem like a number of people on here are pro-Likud, despite them constantly saying they are not.

Well, it certainly does seem like a number of people on here are pro-Hamas, despite them constantly saying they are not.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Salah Al-Arouri, number 2 in Hamas, was assassinated in Beirut by an airstrike an hour ago.


Let the third Lebanon war begin...

Nah, Hezbollah made it clear a while ago that they’re smart enough not to join Hamas’ suicide mission.  They’ll likely launch some rockets as well as huff and puff a bit, but no more than that.  Hezbollah is much stronger than Hamas, but Israel could still wipe them out without breaking a sweat if push truly came to shove.  Hezebollah clearly believes this to be the case or else they would’ve joined Hamas’ war against Israel.  

Props to Israel for taking out one of the top members of Hamas’ leadership!

You will have to explain me the difference between lauding the October 7 attacks and praising "the successful, top knoch execution of the operation in Gaza"

It's not my intent to cry "genocide" here. The internet and social media are full of hate and bullies inciting mass murder. These are dark times. It's the double standard and the indifference what amazes me. Is this forum normalizing Kahanism?

In what regards appeasement, Biden is increasingly looking like the mirror image of Chamberlain.

The difference is simple.  In the October 7 attacks, Hamas engaged in an unprovoked campaign of mass murder, rape, and kidnapping deliberately targeted at innocent civilians.  Here, Israel took out one of the leading members of a terrorist organization in a highly targeted strike while fighting a war of self-defense against said terrorist group.  Your question is like asking the difference between celebrating 9/11 and celebrating the US operation that killed Osama Bin Laden.  If you don’t see a difference between the two, then that speaks volumes about how badly warped and out of touch with reality your views on this are.

Also, it’s pretty clear that the Neville Chamberlain comment is at least implicitly comparing Israel to Nazi Germany.  That is absolutely despicable and absolutely crosses the line into anti-Semitism. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Salah Al-Arouri, number 2 in Hamas, was assassinated in Beirut by an airstrike an hour ago.


Let the third Lebanon war begin...

Nah, Hezbollah made it clear a while ago that they’re smart enough not to join Hamas’ suicide mission.  They’ll likely launch some rockets as well as huff and puff a bit, but no more than that.  Hezbollah is much stronger than Hamas, but Israel could still wipe them out without breaking a sweat if push truly came to shove. 

Israel has already lost a war to Hezbollah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Lebanon_conflict_(1985%E2%80%932000)

That wasn’t a true push comes to shove/all-in war, certainly not for Israel.  In any case, if Hezebollah thought there was any chance they could tip the balance, they would’ve attacked Israel too as Hamas by its own admission believed they would.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

indeed, it is extremely hard to survive with large numbers of Palestinians inside your borders

A final solution is needed

Shut up, Red Wall!

indeed, it is extremely hard to survive with large numbers of Palestinians inside your borders

A final solution is needed

Hitler agrees

This dude is a sock account of Red Wall. Don’t waste time engaging with him; the sock should be banned soon.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

And the Palestinians are hardly unique in not giving up their struggle for self-determination. How many people under colonial rule - because this is what Israel's rule in Palestine amounts to in practice - have given up the struggle for independence? So while one can certainly deplore Palestinian terrorism, it's preposterous to claim the Palestinians are somehow sick for not giving up their desire for self-determination.

Palestinians don’t have to give up their struggle for independence, they need to accept that they lost in 1948 and that they will not get that land back ever. If Palestinians limited their terrorism to West Bank settlers and soldiers only with the clear demand that “terrorism will only stop when you leave the West Bank” that would be one thing. But the Palestinian demand is that Israel stops existing. They need to accept that they lost in 1948 and this will not be corrected in any way. Imagine if the Algerians demanded not just that the French leave Algeria but that they also leave France. That is what Palestinians demand, and they use terrorism to pursue this fundamentally impossible goal.

Palestinians should be given Israeli citizenship as part of the amended Law of Return.

The whole point of Israel having a Jewish majority is so the country is a safe haven for Jews. If you let Palestinians become the majority, they will slaughter millions of Jews if Hamas’ behavior is any example so far. Now I know you don’t really care about what happens but a lot of people do.

Nakba is Israel's original sin.

It's time for Israel to atone by taking back the Palestinians.

If the Jewish "majority" is so afraid that the Palestinians would do to them what they are doing to the Palestinians right now, they should establish the rights of minorities right now in case they are ever in the minority.

We have nothing to atone for, and when it comes to who owes who what, your ledger with us will never be balanced and every pogrom brings Israel closer and closer to a government who may decide to call in that debt.

Who is we? Aren't you American?

Clearly, his allegiance lies elsewhere.

I mean, I'm not  going to assume that. I'd like to hear from Ray.

If there's one thing that the last three months have made clear, it's that our enemies will make no distinction when the time comes. When Israel fights back, they'll take the fight to diaspora Jews because they're soft targets.

Pretty much everyone outside of the far right makes and knows the distinction.

Just very odd phrasing. I'm a strong supporter of Ukraine and know how important it is to hurt Russia as much as possible, but I'd never use "we" to refer to Ukraine's military actions. Says a lot about which country you would prioritize if relations were to ever break down between the US and Israel. And one day, maybe sooner than you think, that will happen.

Pro-tip: If you don't want people to think you might be a self-hating Jew, maybe don't smear Jewish-Americans by falsely accusing them of being more loyal to Israel than America.  Your anti-Semitism is showing.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

And the Palestinians are hardly unique in not giving up their struggle for self-determination. How many people under colonial rule - because this is what Israel's rule in Palestine amounts to in practice - have given up the struggle for independence? So while one can certainly deplore Palestinian terrorism, it's preposterous to claim the Palestinians are somehow sick for not giving up their desire for self-determination.

Palestinians don’t have to give up their struggle for independence, they need to accept that they lost in 1948 and that they will not get that land back ever. If Palestinians limited their terrorism to West Bank settlers and soldiers only with the clear demand that “terrorism will only stop when you leave the West Bank” that would be one thing. But the Palestinian demand is that Israel stops existing. They need to accept that they lost in 1948 and this will not be corrected in any way. Imagine if the Algerians demanded not just that the French leave Algeria but that they also leave France. That is what Palestinians demand, and they use terrorism to pursue this fundamentally impossible goal.

Palestinians should be given Israeli citizenship as part of the amended Law of Return.

The whole point of Israel having a Jewish majority is so the country is a safe haven for Jews. If you let Palestinians become the majority, they will slaughter millions of Jews if Hamas’ behavior is any example so far. Now I know you don’t really care about what happens but a lot of people do.

Nakba is Israel's original sin.

It's time for Israel to atone by taking back the Palestinians.

If the Jewish "majority" is so afraid that the Palestinians would do to them what they are doing to the Palestinians right now, they should establish the rights of minorities right now in case they are ever in the minority.

We have nothing to atone for, and when it comes to who owes who what, your ledger with us will never be balanced and every pogrom brings Israel closer and closer to a government who may decide to call in that debt.

Who is we? Aren't you American?

Clearly, his allegiance lies elsewhere.

I mean, I'm not  going to assume that. I'd like to hear from Ray.

If there's one thing that the last three months have made clear, it's that our enemies will make no distinction when the time comes. When Israel fights back, they'll take the fight to diaspora Jews because they're soft targets.

Pretty much everyone outside of the far right makes and knows the distinction.

Just very odd phrasing. I'm a strong supporter of Ukraine and know how important it is to hurt Russia as much as possible, but I'd never use "we" to refer to Ukraine's military actions. Says a lot about which country you would prioritize if relations were to ever break down between the US and Israel. And one day, maybe sooner than you think, that will happen.

Pro-tip: If you don't want people to think you might be a self-hating Jew, maybe don't smear Jewish-Americans by falsely accusing them of being more loyal to Israel than America.  Your anti-Semitism is showing.

I don't see how such an accusation would be false here. If someone is using "we" to refer to Israeli military actions, that suggests they view themselves, at some level, as part of Israel.

Your tactics aren't working anymore.

He was pretty clearly referring to the Jewish community as a whole. 

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

And the Palestinians are hardly unique in not giving up their struggle for self-determination. How many people under colonial rule - because this is what Israel's rule in Palestine amounts to in practice - have given up the struggle for independence? So while one can certainly deplore Palestinian terrorism, it's preposterous to claim the Palestinians are somehow sick for not giving up their desire for self-determination.

Palestinians don’t have to give up their struggle for independence, they need to accept that they lost in 1948 and that they will not get that land back ever. If Palestinians limited their terrorism to West Bank settlers and soldiers only with the clear demand that “terrorism will only stop when you leave the West Bank” that would be one thing. But the Palestinian demand is that Israel stops existing. They need to accept that they lost in 1948 and this will not be corrected in any way. Imagine if the Algerians demanded not just that the French leave Algeria but that they also leave France. That is what Palestinians demand, and they use terrorism to pursue this fundamentally impossible goal.

Palestinians should be given Israeli citizenship as part of the amended Law of Return.

The whole point of Israel having a Jewish majority is so the country is a safe haven for Jews. If you let Palestinians become the majority, they will slaughter millions of Jews if Hamas’ behavior is any example so far. Now I know you don’t really care about what happens but a lot of people do.

Nakba is Israel's original sin.

It's time for Israel to atone by taking back the Palestinians.

If the Jewish "majority" is so afraid that the Palestinians would do to them what they are doing to the Palestinians right now, they should establish the rights of minorities right now in case they are ever in the minority.

We have nothing to atone for, and when it comes to who owes who what, your ledger with us will never be balanced and every pogrom brings Israel closer and closer to a government who may decide to call in that debt.

Who is we? Aren't you American?

Clearly, his allegiance lies elsewhere.

I mean, I'm not  going to assume that. I'd like to hear from Ray.

If there's one thing that the last three months have made clear, it's that our enemies will make no distinction when the time comes. When Israel fights back, they'll take the fight to diaspora Jews because they're soft targets.

Pretty much everyone outside of the far right makes and knows the distinction.

Just very odd phrasing. I'm a strong supporter of Ukraine and know how important it is to hurt Russia as much as possible, but I'd never use "we" to refer to Ukraine's military actions. Says a lot about which country you would prioritize if relations were to ever break down between the US and Israel. And one day, maybe sooner than you think, that will happen.

Pro-tip: If you don't want people to think you might be a self-hating Jew, maybe don't smear Jewish-Americans by falsely accusing them of being more loyal to Israel than America.  Your anti-Semitism is showing.

I don't see how such an accusation would be false here. If someone is using "we" to refer to Israeli military actions, that suggests they view themselves, at some level, as part of Israel.

Your tactics aren't working anymore.

He was pretty clearly referring to the Jewish community as a whole. 

The Jewish community as a whole is far from united when it comes to what Israel is doing. Especially younger, non orthodox American Jews and leftist Jews.

It was not clear at all.

He was saying that whatever mistakes or wrongs have been committed by the Jewish community, the ledger will never be balanced given all the centuries of anti-Semitic violence.  This isn't complicated.  The second part was that all the pograms and terrorism only push Israel toward a more extremist government.  Certainly there was nothing implying he had dual-loyalty.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

And the Palestinians are hardly unique in not giving up their struggle for self-determination. How many people under colonial rule - because this is what Israel's rule in Palestine amounts to in practice - have given up the struggle for independence? So while one can certainly deplore Palestinian terrorism, it's preposterous to claim the Palestinians are somehow sick for not giving up their desire for self-determination.

Palestinians don’t have to give up their struggle for independence, they need to accept that they lost in 1948 and that they will not get that land back ever. If Palestinians limited their terrorism to West Bank settlers and soldiers only with the clear demand that “terrorism will only stop when you leave the West Bank” that would be one thing. But the Palestinian demand is that Israel stops existing. They need to accept that they lost in 1948 and this will not be corrected in any way. Imagine if the Algerians demanded not just that the French leave Algeria but that they also leave France. That is what Palestinians demand, and they use terrorism to pursue this fundamentally impossible goal.

Palestinians should be given Israeli citizenship as part of the amended Law of Return.

The whole point of Israel having a Jewish majority is so the country is a safe haven for Jews. If you let Palestinians become the majority, they will slaughter millions of Jews if Hamas’ behavior is any example so far. Now I know you don’t really care about what happens but a lot of people do.

Nakba is Israel's original sin.

It's time for Israel to atone by taking back the Palestinians.

If the Jewish "majority" is so afraid that the Palestinians would do to them what they are doing to the Palestinians right now, they should establish the rights of minorities right now in case they are ever in the minority.

We have nothing to atone for, and when it comes to who owes who what, your ledger with us will never be balanced and every pogrom brings Israel closer and closer to a government who may decide to call in that debt.

Who is we? Aren't you American?

Clearly, his allegiance lies elsewhere.

I mean, I'm not  going to assume that. I'd like to hear from Ray.

If there's one thing that the last three months have made clear, it's that our enemies will make no distinction when the time comes. When Israel fights back, they'll take the fight to diaspora Jews because they're soft targets.

Pretty much everyone outside of the far right makes and knows the distinction.

Just very odd phrasing. I'm a strong supporter of Ukraine and know how important it is to hurt Russia as much as possible, but I'd never use "we" to refer to Ukraine's military actions. Says a lot about which country you would prioritize if relations were to ever break down between the US and Israel. And one day, maybe sooner than you think, that will happen.

Man, you don't think I've had an escape plan in my mind as soon as I was aware of geopolitics? Every diaspora Jew is a loyal citizen of their country as long as they're allowed to be, and you might be surprised by how quickly things can go downhill on that front.

I don't see why you'd need an escape plan unless you think the country will be run by Groypers at some point in the future which is laughably unlikely. Most are pathetic neckbeards.

America is safer for Jews than Israel and I see no sign of that changing.

What he is saying is that should the United States ever require his service during the darkest of hours, he'll escape to Israel instead.

Dude, just admit that you want to see the entire Jewish community butchered like hogs.  It’s not like it isn’t already obvious that you’re only here to cheer the murder of Jewish civilians by genocidal terrorists.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

And the Palestinians are hardly unique in not giving up their struggle for self-determination. How many people under colonial rule - because this is what Israel's rule in Palestine amounts to in practice - have given up the struggle for independence? So while one can certainly deplore Palestinian terrorism, it's preposterous to claim the Palestinians are somehow sick for not giving up their desire for self-determination.

Palestinians don’t have to give up their struggle for independence, they need to accept that they lost in 1948 and that they will not get that land back ever. If Palestinians limited their terrorism to West Bank settlers and soldiers only with the clear demand that “terrorism will only stop when you leave the West Bank” that would be one thing. But the Palestinian demand is that Israel stops existing. They need to accept that they lost in 1948 and this will not be corrected in any way. Imagine if the Algerians demanded not just that the French leave Algeria but that they also leave France. That is what Palestinians demand, and they use terrorism to pursue this fundamentally impossible goal.

Palestinians should be given Israeli citizenship as part of the amended Law of Return.

The whole point of Israel having a Jewish majority is so the country is a safe haven for Jews. If you let Palestinians become the majority, they will slaughter millions of Jews if Hamas’ behavior is any example so far. Now I know you don’t really care about what happens but a lot of people do.

Nakba is Israel's original sin.

It's time for Israel to atone by taking back the Palestinians.

If the Jewish "majority" is so afraid that the Palestinians would do to them what they are doing to the Palestinians right now, they should establish the rights of minorities right now in case they are ever in the minority.

We have nothing to atone for, and when it comes to who owes who what, your ledger with us will never be balanced and every pogrom brings Israel closer and closer to a government who may decide to call in that debt.

Who is we? Aren't you American?

Clearly, his allegiance lies elsewhere.

I mean, I'm not  going to assume that. I'd like to hear from Ray.

If there's one thing that the last three months have made clear, it's that our enemies will make no distinction when the time comes. When Israel fights back, they'll take the fight to diaspora Jews because they're soft targets.

Pretty much everyone outside of the far right makes and knows the distinction.

Just very odd phrasing. I'm a strong supporter of Ukraine and know how important it is to hurt Russia as much as possible, but I'd never use "we" to refer to Ukraine's military actions. Says a lot about which country you would prioritize if relations were to ever break down between the US and Israel. And one day, maybe sooner than you think, that will happen.

Man, you don't think I've had an escape plan in my mind as soon as I was aware of geopolitics? Every diaspora Jew is a loyal citizen of their country as long as they're allowed to be, and you might be surprised by how quickly things can go downhill on that front.

I don't see why you'd need an escape plan unless you think the country will be run by Groypers at some point in the future which is laughably unlikely. Most are pathetic neckbeards.

America is safer for Jews than Israel and I see no sign of that changing.

What he is saying is that should the United States ever require his service during the darkest of hours, he'll escape to Israel instead.

Dude, just admit that you want to see the entire Jewish community butchered like hogs.  It’s not like it isn’t already obvious that you’re only here to cheer the murder of Jewish civilians by genocidal terrorists.

Don't put words in my mouth.

Ray seems to forget the "American" part of "Jewish American".

He should be "American" first and "Jewish" second.

No one has to put words in your mouth. You're dropping Nazi dogwhistles left and right.

Tell me, where does your allegiance lie, first and foremost?

United States or Israel?

Shouldn’t you be tying your red laces?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

If I took a shot everytime disagreement emerged between pppolitics and a Zionist in this thread, I'd already have been a member of Alcohols Anonymous.

This has nothing to do with Zionism and everything to do with pppress being a fanatical anti-Semite

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Here is my plans for a final peace settlement (I am a Palestinian American)

1. Israel withdraws from 97% of West Bank (Ehud Olmert's 2008 Annapolis plan)

2. Highway connects West Bank and Gaza Strip

3. Jerusalem remains the undivided and fully controlled by Israel

4. Palestine government buildings operate in East Jerusalem

5. Arab residents in East Jerusalem allowed both Israeli and Palestinian citizenship

6. Palestine becomes the custodian of Al Aqsa Mosque (currently Jordanian government)

7. "Right of Return" is dropped except for the original survivors of the 1947 Nakba

8. A limited number of Palestinian refugees globally will be allowed to settle in West Bank. The rest are given citizenship of their home nations.

9. Hamas is banned as a political party. Any party that promotes violence is banned, similar to Israeli laws

10. Palestine will control its water and power

11. Israeli will be allowed to control airspace over Palestine. In exchange, the airport in Gaza City is reopened and a new airport built in West Bank

12. Israel will be allowed a limited military presence on Jordan border

Thoughts?

Sounds good to me, although I’d even be fine with giving Palestinians East Jerusalem altogether to make things cleaner

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Here is my plans for a final peace settlement (I am a Palestinian American)

1. Israel withdraws from 97% of West Bank (Ehud Olmert's 2008 Annapolis plan)

2. Highway connects West Bank and Gaza Strip

3. Jerusalem remains the undivided and fully controlled by Israel

4. Palestine government buildings operate in East Jerusalem

5. Arab residents in East Jerusalem allowed both Israeli and Palestinian citizenship

6. Palestine becomes the custodian of Al Aqsa Mosque (currently Jordanian government)

7. "Right of Return" is dropped except for the original survivors of the 1947 Nakba

8. A limited number of Palestinian refugees globally will be allowed to settle in West Bank. The rest are given citizenship of their home nations.

9. Hamas is banned as a political party. Any party that promotes violence is banned, similar to Israeli laws

10. Palestine will control its water and power

11. Israeli will be allowed to control airspace over Palestine. In exchange, the airport in Gaza City is reopened and a new airport built in West Bank

12. Israel will be allowed a limited military presence on Jordan border

Thoughts?

Congrats on crafting a proposal both Horus and I are fine with.  That’s a genuinely impressive achievement!

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

One concern I have is about the potential radicalization of southern Gaza.  If one uses the 2006 elections to argue many Palestinians support Hamas*, then one must also acknowledge that southern Gaza (ex: Khan Yunis and especially Rafah) was one of the core areas of opposition to Hamas in the election.  The majority of folks in the southern half of Gaza quite clearly rejected what Hamas was selling and wanted nothing to do with them in that elections.  

The area would be critical for anti-Hamas/non-violent Palestinian party in Gaza and I worry that if Israel handles the area the way it has Gaza City (where Hamas seemingly enjoyed very enthusiastic support in 2006), it will cost the world generations of would-be anti-terrorist Palestinians in the area.  Palestinian civilians who think of Israel as something other than hellfire and death falling from the sky have to come from somewhere in both Gaza and the West Bank.

*As I have said elsewhere, I strongly oppose using 2006 as evidence Palestinians support Hamas.  Hamas worked very hard in that election to rebrand themselves domestically by marketing themselves to Palestinian voters as a pro-democracy party that had essentially matured out of non-self-defense violence/civilian-targeted terrorism (almost as if they thought most Palestinians opposed and would not vote for terrorism or totalitarianism when presented with another option).  Instead, Hamas focused heavily on attacking corruption by Fatah and marketing itself as a good government alternative of sorts.  Very different from how they behaved once they gained power (and to be clear, I am only talking about how they marketed themselves to Palestinians, as opposed to the international community).

Even so, the popular vote was only a narrow Hamas plurality.  The real Hamas landslide came from the district seats.  No one knew how the district lines would play out and it turned out that Hamas’ vote distribution meant that they wildly over-performed in these districts which became the functional equivalent of a completely unintentional pro-Hamas gerrymander.  The maximized their district seats in their strongholds and even won most of the district seats in swingy or outright Fatah-leaning areas.  IIRC the overall popular vote was a narrow Hamas win and certainly not anything resembling a clear mandate.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Highly disturbing developments coming out of Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths

An unlikely charge of intent to commit treason landed Meir Baruchin, a grey-haired, softly spoken history and civics teacher, in the solitary confinement wing of Jerusalem’s notorious “Russian Compound” prison in early November.

The evidence compiled by police who handcuffed him, then drove to his apartment and ransacked it as he watched, was a series of Facebook posts he’d made, mourning the civilians killed in Gaza, criticising the Israeli military, and warning against wars of revenge.

“Horrific images are pouring in from Gaza. Entire families were wiped out. I don’t usually upload pictures like this, but look what we do in revenge,” said a message on 8 October, below a picture of the family of Abu Daqqa, killed in one of the first airstrikes on Gaza. “Anyone who thinks this is justified because of what happened yesterday, should unfriend themselves. I ask everyone else to do everything possible to stop this madness. Stop it now. Not later, Now!!!”

Ten days after that Facebook message, he was fired from his teaching job in Petach Tikvah municipality. Less than a month later he was in a high-security jail, detained to give police more time to investigate critical views he had never tried to hide.

He was interrogated again before a second judge ordered his release. Questioners told him his posts were like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, among the most famously antisemitic documents in the world. “I’m a history teacher, so I asked, ‘Did you ever read them?’ They didn’t respond.”

When his name is clear, Baruchin plans to sue Israeli media who reported police charges without asking for his response or looking for evidence, and accused him of justifying and legitimising Hamas.

Only Democracy in the Middle East^TM

That talking point deserves to be shredded, yes. Israel is a fairly typical Middle Eastern country whether or not the people there or elsewhere would hate to acknowledge it.

Imagine actually believing this