SUPERIMPERIALIST AMERICA ERA ONE: The Ascent to Domination (1844-1991)

[7,052,770]

Why is the Pope now residing on American soil? Did the Vatican become part of the USA?

Interesting development with JFK there.

It's not indepedent; it's just an area of Rome that the US government ignores and lets it do its own thing, but it is offically part of the USA and the state of Roma.

Vatican is a separate nation.

In OTL, that became official in 1929 with a treaty with Musolini.

But in this TL, Musolini never came to power, and so treaty was signed, and Vatican City is part of the US now.

[MasterJedi]

You shouldn't have killed Reagan there! *shakes finger at you*

It's great that all those new states are joining, but let's finish off North America and Austrailia soon.

[sobo]

But the only remaining territories in North America and Australia have very few people in them.  I don't know how many people are left in the northern Canadian territory, but I am almost sure it is less than 100,000 the Northen Territory in Australia has about the same numbers.  By the way, great timeline.

[PBrunsel]

Excellent as always, Harry, with the exception of the assanation of Ronald Reagan

[ATFFL]

As alternate history, this is awful, terrible and the AH boards should rip it to shreds.  It fails the plausibility test early and often, and suffers from the ridiculous notin that after a century of changes the same people will bein the same place doing the same things, sometimes to the same people.

As far as writing and storytelling, it is excellent stuff, really.  Once you trhough plausibility, and even possibility, out the window, and everyone accepts that, it is fun.  Plus the story is internally consistent, which is rare once people start throwing the rules of AH out the window.  

Though the exact same things happeneing on the same date with no logial reason in some of the most recent parts are really off putting.  THe RFK assassination and the Reagan ones are just way too much.  

And if you are going to keep the same OTL assassins how can you skip Squeaky Fromme?  THE best would ba assassin name!

[12th Doctor]

As alternate history, this is awful, terrible and the AH boards should rip it to shreds.  It fails the plausibility test early and often, and suffers from the ridiculous notin that after a century of changes the same people will bein the same place doing the same things, sometimes to the same people.

As far as writing and storytelling, it is excellent stuff, really.  Once you trhough plausibility, and even possibility, out the window, and everyone accepts that, it is fun.  Plus the story is internally consistent, which is rare once people start throwing the rules of AH out the window.  

Though the exact same things happeneing on the same date with no logial reason in some of the most recent parts are really off putting.  THe RFK assassination and the Reagan ones are just way too much.  

And if you are going to keep the same OTL assassins how can you skip Squeaky Fromme?  THE best would ba assassin name!

Ever read Turtledove's "American Empire" series.  If massivly flunks the plausability test right out of the gate.  He has people who were born long after the point of divergence, doing the same things and with the same life-stories.

Just to list:

Ronald "Dutch" Reagan:  He is doing radio for sports in the 1930's and even has the same nick name as in the OTL!!

Joe Kennedy:  Still a Democrat party boss in Boston and still married to Rose. (though not as wealthy or prominant because there is no prohibition)

Mordecai "Three Fingure" Brown:  Not a baseball player in this TL, but a construction worker who still lost his fingures.

Lou Gehrig:  Not a baseball Player, but the star quarterback of the "Philadelphia Barrels".  And he still uses his old Hoover line (except with Blackford instead) "I know I had a better year last year than he did".

Jerry Voorhis:  Once a Senator and now US ambassador to the CSA and still a Socialist.

Herbert Hoover:  President of the United States after President-elect Calvin Coolidge dies of a heart attack, on the exact same day he did in the OTL.

Barry Goldwater: An upstart congressman from New Mexico (the Arizona/New Mexico Territory is never split in two) who is a hard-line conservative Democrat (since the Democrats and Socialists are the two major parties).

Wendel Wilkie: Runs for President on the ticket of the hapless Republican Party (which is the moderate party and holds but a few seats in congress) in 1940.

These are, but a few examples in the story.  The point I am trying to make is that in order for Alternate History to be fun and in order for a reader to be able to realate to it, you need recongnizable events and faces, even though it is almost impossible for these people to have existed in a NTL.



P.S. And though I was never able to prove it, I always suspected that Hitler is in the "Great War" series the precludes the "American Empire" series.

Anyway, welcome to the forum Tedrick.  I love AH.  Hope you stick around.  

And to everyone, I will start-up my "President Dole" timeline to follow up on my "Alternate 1996" timeline.  I just haven't had a chance.

[M]

Really, where did you see Hitler? The only Austrian I remember is that one who followed Morell around in the Canadian Rockies for a while, but he didn't seem the type at all. Anyway, Featherston is Hitler, more or less.

BTW soulty, I'm only up to the book that ends with Jake's election. What exactly is the secret plan to beat the Union, I'm guessins it resembles Barbarossa. I don't mind you spoiling it for me.

[12th Doctor]

Really, where did you see Hitler? The only Austrian I remember is that one who followed Morell around in the Canadian Rockies for a while, but he didn't seem the type at all. Anyway, Featherston is Hitler, more or less.

BTW soulty, I'm only up to the book that ends with Jake's election. What exactly is the secret plan to beat the Union, I'm guessins it resembles Barbarossa. I don't mind you spoiling it for me.

We still don't know what it is after book three.  

Remember, the Austrian had an aid who was a Sergent.  Turtledove never mentions his name, but makes a big deal out of mentioning him several times.  I always thought he was going to drop the bomb and say he was Hitler, but he never did.  I had a feeling though.

[Archangel_Mikey]

You could just tell that it was Hitler by the way HT described that sergant.  My main problem is the time length in the books.  In the 'American Empire' series, the third book-The Victorious Opposition-lastes eight years, while the second book-The Center Cannot Hold-lasts I think a decade, I'm not sure.  The other major problem is with his characters.  They're all centered as Americans or in the Americas, and they never go abroad, and HT has too many, I got confused once.   Anyway, back to the topic.  TTL is completley inplausible.  The peoepl over at AH.net ripped it to shred when you posted it there.  I wonder what their reaction to it would be?

[M]

I had forgotten the Hitler thing, if I ever knew it. Turtledove is ridiculously implausible, but I cannot stand shwi. It's entire purpose is vicious sniping, periodic denunciations of the United States, Israel, and centrists and conservatives worldwide, making newcomers feel very unwelcome by carrying on eight year discussions about nothing and having already assumed in their own heads that most actual alternate history is impossible or unimportant. Of course there are those great stories;  but too few and far between to let me stay there. I used to post under the username "Mike", I even had a good partial TL "If You Will it, it is Not a Dream" about Israel being established in 1903. I'll put a link to it.

Chapter 1: Milked With Words of Honey
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=if+you+will+it,+it+is+not+a+dream+group:soc.history.what-if&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=soc.history.what-if&safe=active&selm=5b8f23f2.0209251955.465448b6%40posting.google.com&rnum=1

Chapter 2: Jerusalem Wasn't Built in a Day
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=if+you+will+it,+it+is+not+a+dream+group:soc.history.what-if&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=soc.history.what-if&safe=active&selm=5b8f23f2.0209251957.4158644a%40posting.google.com&rnum=3

Chapter 3: Next Year in Jerusalem
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=if+you+will+it,+it+is+not+a+dream+group:soc.history.what-if&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=soc.history.what-if&safe=active&selm=5b8f23f2.0209271405.251d5740%40posting.google.com&rnum=4

[ATFFL]

HT is awful at AH right now.  He can't create a divregency without using some out there gimmick.  

I've stopped reading him.

The worst AH I ever read was about the Falkland Islands War.  The scenario was it happening a few years earlier.  In teh book, after the Argentine invasion, the RN is hastily assembled and sent down in about a week.  They scrape up a few infantry divisions to go down and do the nasty work of actually fighting on the islands.  The fleet overcomes some techinical difficulties arising from being scrambled so fast and gets to the island and handily defeats the Argentine navy.  THen they go about planning the invasion of the islands.

Only no one brought a map.

The RN forgot to give them a map of the islands the were supposed to invade.

Thankfully one of the Captains in the fleet used to have a sail boat and sailed around the islands.  Even better, he happened to bring it along, just in case it was needed.

Then they draw up their plans to invade the island and assign the Ghurkas, one of the finest light infantry units in the world, the extremely difficult task of guarding prisoners.

The entire invasion sees, if I remember correctly, 5 casualties.

Now that was bad AH.

[Archangel_Mikey]

Another problem with HT is that he bases things in the Great War series on historical events.  The rise and fall and rise of the Freedom Party, their hatred of other peoples, hatred of their neighbors, supporting Fascists in a civil war on their own continent, and the SA (Freedom Party stalwarts) and the SS (Freedom Party guards).  One thing that disapointed me was that there was no Night of the Long Knives, where the SA was destroyed.

[PBrunsel]

I re-read the entire timeline from the start until the last section, it is the best timeline on this board.

[7,052,770]

since I recently got my wisdom teeth out, i haven't felt like working on this, but pretty soon i'm gonna post the remainder of the 1980's

[PBrunsel]

since I recently got my wisdom teeth out, i haven't felt like working on this, but pretty soon i'm gonna post the remainder of the 1980's

The wisdom teeth! Ow! That must have hurt! I don't blame you for not working on this for a while.

[Jens]

since I recently got my wisdom teeth out, i haven't felt like working on this, but pretty soon i'm gonna post the remainder of the 1980's

The wisdom teeth! Ow! That must have hurt! I don't blame you for not working on this for a while.

Poor fellow. I'm glad I missed that, but I am still waiting for the next episode.

[MasterJedi]

Must.....have.....rest of 80's!

[Josh/Devilman88]

Must.....have.....rest of 80's!

Hey long time no see...

[MasterJedi]

Yea, my computer broke and I didn't have access to another computer with internet access!

[Josh/Devilman88]

Yea, my computer broke and I didn't have access to another computer with internet access!

Wellcome back to the elections...

[Akno21]

I just spent an hour reading all these things. They are addictive.

[7,052,770]

I'm gonna try to put up the next part by Saturday

[bergie72]

I'm gonna try to put up the next part by Saturday

Please do Harry!   I'm Jonesin' for the next installment!    :-)

[12th Doctor]

HT is awful at AH right now.  He can't create a divregency without using some out there gimmick.  

I've stopped reading him.

The worst AH I ever read was about the Falkland Islands War.  The scenario was it happening a few years earlier.  In teh book, after the Argentine invasion, the RN is hastily assembled and sent down in about a week.  They scrape up a few infantry divisions to go down and do the nasty work of actually fighting on the islands.  The fleet overcomes some techinical difficulties arising from being scrambled so fast and gets to the island and handily defeats the Argentine navy.  THen they go about planning the invasion of the islands.

Only no one brought a map.

The RN forgot to give them a map of the islands the were supposed to invade.

Thankfully one of the Captains in the fleet used to have a sail boat and sailed around the islands.  Even better, he happened to bring it along, just in case it was needed.

Then they draw up their plans to invade the island and assign the Ghurkas, one of the finest light infantry units in the world, the extremely difficult task of guarding prisoners.

The entire invasion sees, if I remember correctly, 5 casualties.

Now that was bad AH.

Turtledove is very gimicky, but I still enjoy his work.  World War was a great TL.  I will be reading the "Settleing Accounts" series when the first one comes out.  I just hope that he resists the temptation of making it too much like the real WWII.

[Jens]

I'm gonna try to put up the next part by Saturday

Hurrah, about time Harry