Maine's Question 1

[Badger]

If history holds true, which is likely considering 2009 is shaping up to be a good GOP year and this will fire up conservatives in Maine, then this ends gay "marriage" in Maine. Vote yes on 1.

Level of GOP support ≠ Level of support for marriage inequality. Repeat that as many times as necessary until you understand it.

And, as Al said, you obviously don't understand what history is.

You're absolutely right, GOP support and support FOR marriage are inequal, support FOR marriage is almost always greater than GOP support because minority voters vote how they feel on the issue rather than falling for left wing race baiting. McCain lost in Florida and California but marriage won and marriage won BIGGER than McCain did in Arizona.

I don't understand history? When the PEOPLE get a say in marriage they have ALWAYS supported marriage, that's history and its on marriage's side. The one exception being the poorrly worded Arizona Amendment from 2006 which only failed by 4 points even with the poor wording and passed in 2008 re-worded. But hey, you keep holding out hope that middle America will one day embrace your leftist agenda.

Why do conservatives talk about denying the ability of more people getting marriage as being a a vote "for marriage"? Even an extremem right winger like you must realize that gays are not going to give up their long term committed relationships, they'll just be living outside the bounds a nd stability of marriage that conservatives like you supposedly are trying to protect---by allowing fewer people to marry.

Are you married? If so, how iis your marriage damaged or lessened in any way by gay marriage?

[Badger]

Would it be wrong to put out a robo-call to only registered Republican voters urging them to "Vote no on gay marriage.  Vote no on Question 1."?

Do it.

2-1 odds there'll be robo calls of the reverse message to registered Democrats.

[Badger]

This is almost as good as last year's California: "Keep it straight...YES on 8!"

so, 47% of Maine is morally retrobate...sad news

Need I say that the pair of you are utter disgraces, a fact that cannot be overemphasised.

Rom 1:21-32
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Psa 1:1-3
 1 Blessed is the man
       who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
       or stand in the way of sinners
       or sit in the seat of mockers.

 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
       and on his law he meditates day and night.

 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
       which yields its fruit in season
       and whose leaf does not wither.
       Whatever he does prospers.

And your point being?  None whatsoever.  You know I won't fall for any of that rubbish so I don't know why you even try.  The more I see people pulling that idiotic stunt you're performing the more turned off I am by organised religion.

1 No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief.

Indeed.

May I simply note that Jmfcst and his ilk do not speak for all of us Christians. Such selective reliance on handpicked portions of scripture---particularly the Levitican priestly codes---to justify his personal social mores, while ignoring Christ's unambiguous message throughout the Gospels of unqualified unreserved love for all his children, well, shall we nicely say "misses the point entirely"?

[Badger]

This is almost as good as last year's California: "Keep it straight...YES on 8!"

so, 47% of Maine is morally retrobate...sad news

Need I say that the pair of you are utter disgraces, a fact that cannot be overemphasised.

Rom 1:21-32
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

 24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Psa 1:1-3
 1 Blessed is the man
       who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
       or stand in the way of sinners
       or sit in the seat of mockers.

 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
       and on his law he meditates day and night.

 3 He is like a tree planted by streams of water,
       which yields its fruit in season
       and whose leaf does not wither.
       Whatever he does prospers.

And your point being?  None whatsoever.  You know I won't fall for any of that rubbish so I don't know why you even try.  The more I see people pulling that idiotic stunt you're performing the more turned off I am by organised religion.

1 No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief.

Indeed.

May I simply note that Jmfcst and his ilk do not speak for all of us Christians. Such selective reliance on handpicked portions of scripture---particularly the Levitican priestly codes---to justify his personal social mores, while ignoring Christ's unambiguous message throughout the Gospels of unqualified unreserved love for all his children, well, shall we nicely say "misses the point entirely"?

I was hoping you'd chime in on this JSojourner ol' pal. ;-)

[Badger]

You'd be lucky if you were half the man JS is, jmfcst.

[Badger]

Why would it being a vote on a hypothetical make it a poor comparison?  If anything, that would make the comparison stronger because the differences would only serve to make the shift even greater.

Because voting to ban Gay Marriage in 2000 was a free vote for people. It was something that was never going to happen, and no one was hurt by it in the view of those voting yes. Even the Gay community struggled to come up with a reason why it was bad.

Prop 8 was entirely different. You had people who were already getting married whose status would be thrown into doubt. You had people who could be married who you would be telling that they should not be able to if you voted Yes. Voting Yes was an entirely different matter.

That said, I have my own view on Prop 8, and they mainly relate to the fact that the Gay community has to separate social equality from legal equality. One is guaranteed, the other earned, and even in the best of cases never total. Gay rights groups have to realize that if they are going to use these laws as fronts to force their views on others, then people will vote on that basis, rather than on the basis of legal rights. They did not learn that lesson in California, nor evidently are they learning the correct lesson from Maine.

But legal equality strongly affects social equality. The same way immeidiately after desegregation was instituted by "federal overreaching" southern support for segregation plummeted in opinion polls. The legalization of interracial marriage didn't make it universally accepted of course, but went a long way towards removing the taboo and allowing people to rely on "well, it's the law" as a reflexive shelter.