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1  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: May 20, 2013, 07:25:19 pm
James Garner and Patton Wyde seem like loyal, freedom loving Americans by the looks of it. Davis Griffin seems like a cool dude.

Based on their appearances, or bios? Tongue
2  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: May 19, 2013, 07:43:18 pm
I am happy to announce that I have finally tabulated the 1984 results! Smiley

In addition, I figured it was long overdue for a pictures post, as Mechaman has done something similar. None of the below images belong to me, and credit goes to their respective owners.

Thad O’Connor 

(Don Van Vliet)

Areus Ho’kee

(Cesar Romero)

Abimelech Delroy

(Sean Patrick Flanery)

James Garner

(Robert Patrick)

Davis Griffin

(George Meany)

Patton Wyde

(Kevin Bacon)

Richard McPherson 

(Richard Russell)
3  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: May 16, 2013, 12:17:09 am
After a speech such as that, I'm afraid I'll have to stand by the President (or better yet, join the "terrier"). Tongue Nevertheless, good update.

You definetly aren't the targeted demographic of Ho'kee's diatribe, regardless of how much he waters it down in public. Tongue

Of course, the Working Man's Party (the terrier) has been working at building up infrastructure and fielding candidates. So there's that to look forward to. Smiley
4  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: May 15, 2013, 10:53:53 pm
Celebrate: 1985

Thad had been walking toward the Drunken Dutchman on a rainy December evening when a well-kept stranger in sunglasses and a tuxedo handed him an envelope. It was an invitation to a New Year’s Eve celebration, hosted by Areus Ho’kee. The Mayoral election and Gubernatorial elections had punctuated the relevance of 1985, as far as Thad and the Republican Party were concerned; all that was to be eaten on Thanksgiving was a corned beef sandwich with grey poupon, and he received little more than a pat on the back for Christmas. The invitation would thus be a welcome reprieve from the monotony that was the past month.

Thad once more climbed the steps toward Areus’ estate, and granted Prudence a level of obeisance that she’d been unaccustomed to: a handshake. She briefly, but earnestly smiled in return before leading him to the lobby. There, he greeted the usual suspects: Lawrence Coventry, Ericson Snell, James Garner, and others, before making his way to Areus Ho’kee, who was talking to a gentleman younger than Thad. The pair was flanked by a woman on either side.

“So glad to see you could make it, Thad!” Areus exclaimed, before giving him a tight hug. The wine in Areus’ glass danced back and forth, but not a drop spilled over the edge. Afterwards, he kept one arm wrapped around Thad’s shoulder, before panning to the other person in company. “Thad, my dear friend, I don’t believe you’ve had the pleasure of meeting the newest addition to our clique, have you?” he asked, throwing his other arm around the stranger.

“Abimelech Delroy,” said the man, proffering his hand. Despite being younger, he was more solemn and reserved than the gregarious Areus Ho’kee. He was roughly the same height as Ho’kee, and wore a beige Steson hat with a grey feather sticking out of the brim, which matched his suit jacket. Both men were considerably taller than Thad. “Much obliged,” said Thad, shaking his hand.

It was not too long after Thad was acquainted with Abimelech that Areus perched himself on a table to address the whole congregation. “Ladies and gentlemen!” he shouted, before tapping the side of his glass with a spoon. “I would like to have all of your attention for a moment, please.” Shortly after, all conversations had ceased and all heads were turned toward Areus.

“Today we convene on this cold New Year’s Eve to commemorate another year having passed by. To those who have just arrived, there is a great assortment of wine and cheeses. I would encourage everybody to have a glass of the Pinot Blanc, vintage 1963. Though one of my more cherished bottles, I cannot begrudge it from you all tonight. Of course, if you happen to have other needs, Prudence should be at the top of the stairs, provided nothing else has preoccupied that empty head of hers.

Now that all of the formalities have been cast aside, we can move on to business. As I’m sure you can all recall, the election in 1984 was a heart-wrenching affair for most of us. In addition, although we managed to win several Senate seats and trim the fat from the Democratic majority, they retained control of both chambers. Not only had the robber gotten away, but also his accomplices.

The year of 1985 has been a mixed bag, at best. Following Scoop’s reelection, we have seen the passage of unprecedented agrarian welfare and the authorization for more intervention in Panama. However, it can also be argued that these struggles exposed the weaknesses in the Democratic coalition. Despite their staggering majority, both measures only passed narrowly. In addition, the President’s approval ratings have been on a continuous wane since the election.

Which brings us to more recent events: the 1985 elections. As expected, the Democrats were unceremoniously repelled in New Jersey. However, in Virginia, a Jackson state, they barely scraped by with a victory, which is surprising, given the Virginia Rule. And lastly, perhaps the race closest to my heart: the New York Mayoral Election. Against all odds, the young entrepreneur Abimelech Delroy was able to overcome the juggernaut that was Ed Koch. His platform and identity might best encapsulate the Republican victory of tomorrow.”

At this point there was a moment of silence, and the room clapped for Abimelech, who smiled and bowed in humility. However, Areus continued with a grim tone. “However, there was a distant tremor to be heard from Memphis. Davis Griffin, disgraced ex-Republican Chairman, has forged a so-called Working Man’s Party in an attempt to stay relevant. The intent is obvious: to sabotage Republican electoral prospects, and collect a solid rump of sore-losers to act as a bargaining chip for control of the Republican Party.

Thus, the mantra will be as follows: despite their best efforts, Republicans will fail to gain either branch of Congress. Despite the receding economy, unpopular war, and scandal, Democrats will achieve victory in the mid-term elections. The prevailing wisdom will then be to make concessions to these third-party defections; that the Rottweiler must whimper before the Terrier. No matter how hard we try, the sole hope of salvation for the Republican Party lies with Paul Laxalt, Davis Griffin, et cetera, and that we must submit to the caterwauling of Appalachian trash and Southern racists.”

The room began to stir. Some somberly peered into their wine glasses, while others batted their eyes or shook their head. Areus promptly roused them from their reticence by pitching his wine glass to the floor and shouting his next diction. “This will not be the case! We have worked far too long for this to all be meaningless!” Some were appalled by Areus’ shattering of the wine glass, while others were too captivated by his fervor to care.

“Nay, my friends. We are going to break the mold with this mid-term election. Some are complacent to sit on their hands, in hopes that the demerits of this Administration will build a staircase to victory, but not us! Rather, we shall carve our own path, selling the Republican brand to disaffected voters and manifesting a new coalition. The Democratic majority may seem insurmountable, but the reality is that the chinks in the armor have betrayed their presence with their rusty clamoring.

My friends, we are going to drive a wedge into these chinks as hard and deep as we can. It will not be easy, however. Such an endeavor will require that each of you campaign on behalf of fellow-Republicans. In fact, those of you who were invited here today will serve such a purpose: I want each of you to campaign against Democratic Representatives and Senators in your state. The details shall be fleshed out another time.

The Republican Party is a leaderless mob, ripe for the taking. With a robust campaign, we will establish ourselves as a force to be reckoned with, and a legitimate party at the bargaining table. So I ask each of you today pledge to help make this dream a reality.” The room nodded and shouted a variance of ayes and yeses. “Come, then! Let us toast to the wake of the Democratic majority,” said Areus.
5  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: 1996 Republican National Convention on: May 15, 2013, 07:20:44 pm
Weld for VP, whoever wins.
6  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: 1996 Party Nominations on: May 13, 2013, 08:41:05 pm
Weld for VP.
7  Other Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Congressional Elections / Re: MA: Boston Globe endorses Markey on: May 09, 2013, 11:01:33 pm
NRSC Ad against Markey

LOL. "Oh yeah, he's bad!"

Horrible ad.
8  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: 1992 Party Nominations on: May 07, 2013, 10:55:57 pm
Paul/McClaughry
9  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: May 05, 2013, 04:47:01 pm
TIME – Republicans Triumph in New York, New Jersey
November 10th, 1985

Abimelech wins New York Mayoral Race

In perhaps the most hotly contested and closely followed race this year, Abimelech Delroy pulled off a narrow victory against the incumbent Mayor, Ed Koch. A year ago Ed Koch was thought to be nearly untouchable for his cross-party appeal and popular tenure.

However, a young stock-trader and businessman, Abimelech Delroy, sought to change that. After winning the Republican primary in a walk, Delroy unexpectedly obtained the Liberal Party nomination, attempting to hit him from the Left and Right at the same time. Delroy criticized Koch’s “tough on crime” policies as hurting the poor, and promised to tell NYC police not to enforce “Rockefeller Drug Laws.”

Some were concerned that a robust campaign from Barry Farber, the Conservative Party candidate, would hand the election to Koch. Some Conservative Party officials openly gloated about such a prospect, claiming that a spoiled election may “set the Republican Party back to the right course.”  Others, however, denounced this notion out of the fear that it would discredit the Working Man’s Party (the national affiliate of the CPNY) as merely a spoiler.

“A vote for Farber is simply that – a vote for Farber,” said William F. Buckley.

New York Mayoral Race:
Abimelech Delroy (R/L) – 43.27%
Ed Koch (D) – 42.98%
Barry Farber (C) – 13.75%

Roukema wins in New Jersey

In the Garden State, Republicans managed to hold on to the New Jersey Governor’s mansion. Vacated by Thomas Kean (who won the New Jersey Senate seat in 1984) the acting Governor did not run for a full term. Instead, Marge Roukema, a female Representative, won and ran over Nicholas Amato, an Assemblyman.

New Jersey Gubernatorial Race:
Marge Roukema (R) – 56.21%
Nicholas Amato (D) – 38.77%
James Hagen (C) – 5.02%

Democrats hold on to Virginia

In a surprisingly close race the Democrats held on to the Executive Mansion in Virginia by a modest amount. Baliles, a conservative Democrat, led by an aggregate of ten-points in the run-up to the election, but in the later half of October Republican Marshall Coleman began to close the margin, but ultimately the Virginia Rule[1] has been upheld.

Virginia Gubernatorial Race:
Gerald Baliles (D) – 51.09%
Marshall Coleman (R) – 48.91%

[1] The Virginia Rule being that the presidential party holds on to the Virginia Governorship, dating back to 1961.


Generic Ballot Preference (Congress):
Democratic: 41%
Republican: 39%
Working Man’s Party: 8%
Other/Undecided: 12%

Presidential Approval Ratings
November 8th, 1985
10  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / 2016 U.S. Presidential Primary Election Polls / Re: FDU national poll: D: Clinton 63% Biden 12%; R: Rubio 18% Bush 16% Christie 14% on: May 05, 2013, 02:40:00 pm
I was actually one of the people polled here. The lady over the phone had a pretty good sense of humor (on the political mother question or w/e I jokingly voted Palin since NOTA wasn't an option) but she hadn't even heard of Rand Paul.

So yeah, I have to say this is kindof a crappy poll.
11  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: What are you listening to right now? II on: May 03, 2013, 10:15:08 pm
Little Talks - Of Monsters and Men
12  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: May 02, 2013, 11:04:59 pm
TIME – Poor economic indicators
July 10th, 1985

Republican launches robust campaign for New York City Mayor

The 1984 elections were generally considered to be a defeat for Republicans, despite the fact that they gained a fair amount of Senate and House seats. Some have forecasted a grim outlook for Republicans, hearkening back to the 1930’s and 1940’s, where Republicans spent two decades locked out of the Presidency.

However, some Republicans see opportunity in an unlikely place: the New York City Mayoral election. Ostensibly, it is a long shot: Mayor Ed Koch has enjoyed a reputation as a moderate, and even received the Republican Party endorsement in 1981. With a robust program that has included spending and tax cuts, some Republicans fear that Ed Koch is undefeatable, and others worry that challenging him will yield the Mayoralty to a much more liberal candidate.

In defiance of the conventional wisdom, however, one Republican has been campaigning early on in hopes of catching the seemingly safe Koch by surprise: Abimelech Delroy. Rather than try to appeal purely to New York City Republicans, Abimelech has also made a sincere effort to court the endorsement of the Liberal Party, as well as other left-leaning voters.

One key aspect of the Abimelech campaign is the embrace of Georgian economics. Hearkening back to the quixotic bid for Mayor by Henry George nearly one hundred years ago. Henry George called for taxation based solely on property values, a theme echoed in Abimelech’s campaign. In addition, Abimelech has promised to waive zoning regulations, to allow the creation of cheap, equitable, and compact apartments, or “micro-units.” A third tenet of Abimelech’s campaign is the pledge to lessen enforcement for drug-related charges.

Corruption probe launched

Several members of the House Judiciary Committee announced earlier this week that they would be launching a probe investigating the President’s reelection campaign. Despite being Democratically-controlled, the measure passed with all but one Republican voting in favor and a rump of liberal Democrats defecting, despite pressure from Majority Leader Wright.

“There have been great lengths taken to make sure this was a bi-partisan effort,” said Minority Leader Ericson Snell. “This transcends politics, or at least as much as anything Washington-related can. There have been disturbing irregularities in the treasuries of State Democratic Parties, as well as an unusually high amount of employees from the defense industry donating to the President.”

When asked about the probe, President Jackson responded, “I can assure you that there has been no wrongdoing, corruption, or unethical behavior going on in my administration. I cannot help it if overseas personnel and defense employees at home were convinced that my campaign better represented their interests: defending America. This is little more than a witch-hunt, by a bunch of would-be witch hunters seeking to nullify the results of last November.

Consumer confidence down, gas prices up

Despite insistences from the Administration and models projecting growth over the next year, the economy has gone from a slow crawl to a dead stop. Reports from Q2, or the second quarter, show that the economy shrank by 0.3%, the second consecutive quarter of economic shrinkage. With such flirtations with a recession, consumer confidence has been on the wane and retail sales have been down.

In addition, the price of gas has been at a historic high, with the aggregate price of gas being roughly $1.69/gal. While some of this can be attributed to inflation, most of the blame can be placed on instability in the Middle Eastern region, caused by the Iranian War. In addition, the incapacitation of the Panama Canal has created distortions in maritime activities, increasing shipping costs of oil from Central American states.

The high price of gas affects the economy in other ways. For instance, Midwestern states such as Ohio and Michigan have been in a tailspin, as the spike in gas prices has led to great proliferation of Japanese cars such as the Toyota, which gets better gas mileage. Ford has been making a robust effort to increase its own vehicles fuel economy and efficiency, but the industry has had a clumsy reaction.

In addition, the high price of gas affects commutes to work, as higher prices at the pump reduce the purchasing power of the average citizen. Higher fuel prices also increase transit costs to ship products, harming the inventory of small businesses and leading to further price inflation. With the onset of summer and its traditional increase in road trips and travel, gas prices will likely continue to rise.
13  General Discussion / Alternative History / Re: Unfortunate Son on: April 28, 2013, 10:07:22 pm
I'm sorry, where in mythread does it state something regarding Agnew and Civil Rights? I can best address complaints when I know what they're about.
Somebody mentioned something about Agnew and law and order.

Yes - that Agnew criticized some civil rights protestors for "rabble rousing." (I'm paraphrashing here, but if need be I can drive over to the library and check the Nixon book out again for some citation.)

Being for "law and order," an outright segregationist does not make, even during the 60's when the phrase had certain connotations. And as you yourself stated,

Quote from: Oldiesfreak1854
He was pro-law and order and pro-civil rights at the same time.

So, what's the problem?
14  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: April 28, 2013, 04:37:13 pm
TIME – Third Party on the Rise!
June 19th, 1985

Working Man’s Party emerges

After over a week of convening in Memphis, Tennessee, Davis Griffin and other prominent conservative thinkers and politicians resolved to form their own political party. Rather than revive the American Party, they opted to go with a new title, the “Working Man’s Party.” The name was met with some controversy amongst the participants, some of which were concerned about its history as a leftist title. However, the prevailing wisdom was that it would “best capture the votes of those in the Ignored Majority.”

Davis Griffin pledged to devote nearly a billion dollars to getting the Working Man’s Party on the ballot in at least forty states by 1986. The party hopes to contest every single Senate election, as well as House elections, in hopes of having an impact on the 1986-midterm elections.

The Conservative Manifesto
by Christian Mattingly

We have convened in Memphis, Tennessee to determine the most effective path for the conservative movement to gain success in a meaningful, dignified way. My colleagues and I who are gathered here today are honest men. We are men of conviction, of faith, of patriotism, and of honesty. Most of us are family men, who would like to leave a better America than we found.

There are those in the media, in the beltway, and in the elite establishment who would lampoon us as extremists. Much as they have done to good men who dared venture into politics in the past, they will highlight on any mistake and pounce, all the while ignoring the flagrant corruption that pervades Washington. Out of a reluctance to confront the issues that we raise, they are content to sit in their lofty towers and take potshots in hopes of rendering our cause illegitimate in the public eye.

‘Sticks and stones,’ as the old playground rebuttal goes. If we remain united in spirit, the inevitable deluge of slings and arrows that will be fired our way will be rendered as harmless as spitballs and rubber bands. Undoubtedly, this movement will attract some extremists, but we cannot allow a few bad apples to corrupt the entire tree.

This decision was not an easy one for we delegates. There are those of us that long for the “good old days” and the Democratic Party of yore. John Davis was right to lament that the party had been taking a whole new direction, though he was thirty years early in his prediction. Men such as Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman were men of patriotism, and had the courage to prosecute a war.

Yet the Sixties and the ascendancy of the New Left have rendered the Democratic Party to be a hollowed out shell of its former self. It is tragic to see that post office workers and laborers have been made bedfellows with layabouts who are content to smoke marijuana and sing songs condemning our men in uniform. President Jackson is due some credit for trying to right the ship, but it is obvious that these new elements would rather derail the party than see it succeed.

Similarly, the Republican Party has traditionally been the party of order. With the nation collapsing from under his feet, President Lincoln bravely stood against the secessionists and so-called civil libertarians to reunite the country by whatever means possible. When miners rose up in arms, it was Theodore Roosevelt who put his foot down, while also seeing to it that their demands be met. When the nation was nearly torn asunder by the ravenous anti-war protesters, Richard Nixon came back from retirement to bring peace and stability.

Yet in a perverse twist of fate, the Republican Party has shirked its traditional status as the party of order and security. Had the Republican Senate Caucus had their way, our troops in Panama would still be without supplies. It is now Republican Senators who tend to be the chief source of opposition to America’s foreign policy interests. So-called “Mavericks” in the Republican Party have entered a union with the counter-cultural Left in the Democratic Party; yet have not been so kind as to take them with them. The fix is in for the GOP.

The conventional wisdom is that we are the new swing voters. Republicans are now stretched further than an Olympic gymnast, using one hand to offer a gilded platter of abortion, pacifism, and environmentalism to a posse of hippies, and the other holding a clean-picked dish of mild debt reduction to conservatives such as us. By contrast, the Democrats offer us runaway welfare spending, coupled with an occasional hem and a haw on the issues of morality. Yet they at least live up to the basic, mature national security needs that need to be addressed.

Those who think that this is the best we can aspire towards have tragically low expectations. We here resolve that we will forge our own destiny. We are no longer content to be skewered upon the mast of a false dichotomy, with Republican and Democratic urchins scavenging the remains. As Ronald Reagan once said, “You and I have a rendezvous with destiny.” It is time for us to go forward and shatter the false consensus.

Thus, with heavy hearts, each man in attendance today will be burning any registration cards or party placards we once had.  We each pledge to discard our old affiliations as part of an antiquated path, and resolve to move forward under the banner of the Working Man’s Party.

Conservative Manifesto Signatories:

District Judge Perry O. Hooper (R-AL)
Fmr. Rep James D. Martin (R-AL)
Activist Evan Mecham (R-AZ)
Rep. John P. Hammerschmidt (R-AR)
Fmr. Rep Bob Dornan (R-CA)
Fmr. Rep John Schmitz (R-CA)

Rep. Larry MacDonald (D-GA)
Fmr. Rep George Hansen (R-ID)
Rep. Henry Hyde (R-IL)

State Rep. “Woody” Jenkins (D-LA)
Fmr. Rep John Rarick (C-LA)
Fmr. Rep Bob Bauman (R-MD)
Activist Howard Phillips (I-MA)
Columnist Christian Mattingly (I-MI)

State Rep. Prentiss Walker (R-MS)
Fmr. Governor Meldrim Thomson (R-NH)
State Rep. Jeffrey Bell (R-NJ)

Fmr. Senator James Buckley (C-NY)
Fmr. Elector Lloyd Bailey (R-NC)
Rep. John Ashbrook (R-OH)
Rep. Jimmy Quillen (R-TN)
Fmr. State Senator Hank Grover (R-TX)

General Edwin A. Walker (AI-TX)
Senator Bill Archer (R-TX)
Columnist Richard Viguerie (AI-VA)
Rep. Humphrey Wilkinson (I-WY)
15  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: April 27, 2013, 09:14:51 pm
TIME – Shots fired in the Carribean
June 8th, 1985

Resolution narrowly passes in the Senate

The resolution sponsored several weeks ago to authorize “police action” in Panama was passed after a surprisingly narrow vote (53-44-3). Despite the strong selling point that police action was “necessary to deliver supplies to troops,” President Jackson reportedly had used a lot of muscle on Senate Democrats who were wary of passing the resolution. Part of their skepticism was due to concerns that military operations would not remain limited to supply routes, and part of it was also fear of a rebuke from the voters.

In a stunning turn of events, the Senate Republican Caucus voted down the resolution by a margin of roughly two-to-one. The measure passed primarily on the backs of Senate Democrats, with only a dozen Republicans being peeled off in support (which, however, were essential to its passage.)

Within a day after the passage of the resolution, the United States Navy ships took to bombarding the Panamanian Coast to secure the delivery of food rations, guns, and bullets, much to the joy of American soldiers. President Jackson stated he was still open to negotiations with General Torrijos, and said, “I hope this nudges him in our direction.”

”Conservative Summit” takes place

Days after the narrow passage of the authorization of force in Panama, former Republican Chairman Davis Griffin announced he would be hosting a “Conservative Summit” in Memphis, Tennessee. The former chairman stated that he wanted the meeting to consist of “a broad array of people, each with different perspectives.”

Davis Griffin’s stated goal of the Conservative Summit is to “determine the best avenue for the Conservative movement in the future, paying minimal deference to entrenched interests that would dilute the movement.” Chairman Griffin made it a point to stress that the course of action would not necessarily exist within the confines of the Republican Party. Griffin reportedly sent over five hundred invitations to the forum, with the promise of paid travel and hotel rooms. Though the recipients are anonymous, it has been leaked that some are former American Independent Party members, while others are disaffected Republicans and Democrats.

Griffin’s anti-establishment tone is ironic, given that a year ago he himself was the Chairman of the Republican National Committee, and has had a history of using strong-arm tactics to hand-pick candidates against the will of the voters. Some speculate that this is a well-funded ego trip for the purposes of revenge, in the wake of his defeat for reelection as Chairman.
16  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Atlas Fantasy Elections / Re: Another Pragmatic Campaign for Midwest Wisard! on: April 27, 2013, 09:55:39 am
Endorsed, dawg.
17  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: April 26, 2013, 10:34:36 pm
The seams exposed: 1985

It was a warm spring day as Thad O’Connor walked in to the Senate. Despite the Summer Solstice steadily approaching, the chamber had yet to activate its air-conditioning, and the stale, thick, air that permeated the room left many reluctant to stay in attendance, despite the importance of the matter being debated. Thad O’Connor only spied a few Senators present.

Amongst them was Orval Smylie of Idaho, who had been freshly elected. Despite his relative youth, he had the appearance of an old man, with a large wrinkled nose, thick-rimmed glasses, and white hair that peeked out from his bowler hat. “The Senate now recognizes the Gentleman from Florida,” said Orval in a high-pitched, whiney voice.

The whole body looked over to one man, whom rose to the podium. He wore a beige suit jacket and towered over the podium at an impressive 6’4’’. His shoulders were broad, and the sweat on his balding head glistened in the light. His deep voice resonated within the chamber as he began to speak. “Thank you, Mr. President,” he said with a mild Southern accent. It was Richard McPherson, the Senate Majority Whip.

“I speak before the Senate today not on behalf of the Administration, but on behalf of our men fighting overseas. Nearly a year ago there was a leftist revolution in Panama, led by Omar Torrijos. As direct consequence of the revolution, our military installments in Panama have been put under siege, and the Panama Canal has been damaged.

Because of the opposition by Republicans, malcontent Democrats, and an unfriendly press, the President has been hamstringed like no other one before him in his authority to make war decisions. As a result, American boys have been stranded in Panama for over a year, and have been relying on surplus materials to survive.

I would like to caution some of my dovish friends that this is not a choice of war and peace. Regrettably, the Panamanians have already made that choice for us. At this point, this is a choice of peace or death, as far as our soldiers are concerned. We can either grant them congressional authorization and let them fight for their peace, or cut off their supplies and sentence them to death.” After finishing his harangue, Richard McPherson sat down on the nearest bench.

In response, Lawrence Coventry rose to the opposite podium. Unlike most of the Senators present, he wore only a white dress shirt that hung loosely over his tall, gangly figure. He coughed to clear his throat for a moment, before grasping the microphone. “What we have just witnessed here is the most polished defense of the administration’s foreign policy that one could conceivably give.

That being said, it is still the same foreign policy despite whatever window dressing the Senator from Florida would like to adorn it with. The Senator would lead one to believe that we would reject this motion only on the grounds that we ‘dislike the troops’ or ‘want to sentence them to death.’ While McPherson’s prose is emphatic, it is also devoid of any nuance to the current geopolitical situation.

It troubles me as much as any other Senator to speak out in opposition to funding for our young men overseas. There is much more to the story than has been told, however. What this resolution calls for is not only funding toward our men overseas, but also authorization for police action in Panama. For those who are not as historically read, some other interventions billed as ‘police actions’ were the Korean War and the Vietnam War.

Despite the sensationalist rhetoric, the reality is that our soldiers in Panama have surplus rations and bullets to sustain them for months on end. It has been a common tactic of this administration to demonize skeptics of intervention as unpatriotic, in an effort to leverage wary Democrats into voting for measures such as these and thereby creating a false consensus. For the sake of the nation this must end, and we must stop giving into scare tactics that obfuscate the truth.” Said Lawrence.

Lawrence sat next to Thad after finishing, and Senator Patton Wyde rose to the podium in response, looking particularly sweaty and red. “Never would I have guessed that it would be deemed politically courageous to come out in favor of authorizing funds and supplies for the troops. Despite the mandate for four more years, however, it seems that a loud minority is actively committed to cutting off funds from our soldiers.”

Said Patton Wyde, who took a deep breath before looking toward Senator Coventry. “A few more months!” he exclaimed, before slamming his fist on the podium. “Our soldiers are the best and the brightest! Our soldiers risk their very lives in the thick of battle! And you only wish to afford them a few more months?!” he bellowed. “Shame on you!” at this point Orval Smylie was banging the gavel in protest, demanding order in the chamber.

“I’m sorry, Mr. President. I was captivated in the heat of the moment, and appalled by the abject neglect and lack of responsibility that certain members here have displayed today. Unfortunately it seems that the most important point has been lost in the nuance of this debate: this is merely a new front of the Cold War that has been opened up. Omar Torrijos is a well-known leftist, and the cause for Panamanian independence has been trivialized as part of a Soviet power grab.

As has been said before, the Panamanians have quite clearly made moves of aggression toward us by bombing the Panama Canal. The Panama Canal is what connects the East Coast to the West Coast, and is a strong interest not only commercially but also militarily. Those who are on the opposite side of this chamber are content to sit on their hands and prattle on about ‘historical injustices’ while our own domestic security is jeopardized.

The Panama Canal is a beacon of American exceptionalism that stands in defiance to the rest of the world. Where other nations failed, America alone was able to literally move heaven and earth in the name of facilitating prosperity. Now, such a beacon has been torn down, and there are those too committed to the forest to notice the massive tree that they’re about to crash this nation into. I appeal to the other members of this body, there are two paths to follow:

One path is that of the self-conscious apologist who nearly trips over his own tail as it dangles between his legs. He who would merely stand by and hope to negotiate with the Soviets over tea and pumpkin pie, as the white stars and stripes on the American flag were painted red. The other path seeks to emulate the brave frontiersman, who in the face of impossible odds, plowed on forward in the name of Manifest Destiny. The bold spirit of those such as Teddy Roosevelt and Thomas Jefferson characterizes this path.”

Senator Lawrence Coventry moved back towards the podium on the opposite side, with a smirk on his face. “The chamber once again recognizes the Senator from Vermont,” said Senator Smylie. “Thank you Mr. President,” said Lawrence. “Time and again, the Administration’s stalwarts abuse oversimplification as if it were a Mississippi wife. Those who support this measure quite literally think that those who oppose it are ‘anti-American.’

I would first like to state the obvious: I think our nation has done great things and is capable of doing more so. However, I also apply the free-market principle of equal competition; that no nation inherently has a moral advantage over another. The reality is that we have had certain shortsightedness with our foreign policy in the past, Panama being a sterling example.

The reality behind Wyde’s idyllic fable of our past is that the United States backed Panamanian sovereignty solely to facilitate the construction of the Panama Canal: a similar charge which he has levied against the Soviets. Our bases and military presence there have existed for decades, as an affront to every Panamanian that lives there. How would we feel if France established military installations in Michigan because of their aid in the Revolutionary War? We would be appalled.

I recognize that some in this chamber with to vote for it because of the pretense: that authorization of police force would allow us to clear the Caribbean Sea and restore supplies to our besieged soldiers. However, there is strong precedent for this administration and the last Democratic one to construe such a clause as much more. Until there are indications that this administration has changed its foreign policy outlook, I cannot vote for such a bill, and do not wish to carry the blame when we find ourselves here a year from now trying to end the War in Panama.”



Aye: Howell Heflin (D-AL), Ted Stevens (R-AK), Clark Gruening (D-AK), Bob Stump (D-AZ), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), David Pryor (D-AR), Bill Armstrong (R-CO), Christopher Dodd (D-CT), Joe Biden (D-DE), William Roth (R-DE), Lawton Chiles (D-FL), Richard McPherson (D-FL), Sam Nunn (D-GA), Herman Talmadge (D-GA), Alex Seith (D-IL), Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL), Bob Dole (R-KS), Joan Finney (D-KS), Walter Huddleston (D-KY), Wendell Ford (D-KY), Bennett Johnston Jr. (D-LA), Russell B. Long (D-LA), Paul Sarbanes (D-MD), John Stennis (D-MS), Patton Wyde (D-MS), Thomas Eagleton (D-MO), John Danforth (R-MO), James Exon (D-NE), Edward Zorinsky (D-NE), Paul Laxalt (R-NV), Howard Cannon (D-NV), Bruce King (D-NM), Harrison Schmidt (R-NM), Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY), Robert Morgan (D-NC), John Ingram (D-NC), John Glenn (D-OH), David Boren (D-OK), Wes Watkins (D-OK), Bob Duncan (D-OR), John Heinz (R-PA), John Murtha (D-PA), Strom Thurmond (R-SC), Ernest Hollings (D-SC), Marilyn Lloyd (D-TN), Jim Sasser (D-TN), Bill Archer (R-TX), Jake Garn (R-UT), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Harry Byrd (D-VA), Andrew Miller (D-VA), Jennings Randolph (D-WV), Robert Byrd (D-WV) (53)

Nay: Jefferson Dent (D-AL), Dale Bumpers (D-AR), Pete McCloskey (R-CA), Gary Hart (D-CO), Lowell Weicker (R-CT), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Spark Matsunaga (D-HI), Orval Smylie (R-ID), Frank Church (D-ID), Birch Bayh (D-IN), Richard Lugar (R-IN), John Culver (D-IA), Frederic Reid (R-IA), Thad O’Connor (R-ME), Ralph Stevenson (R-ME), Charles Mathias (R-MD), Ted Kennedy (D-MA), Bill Weld (R-MA), Mic Ceriel (R-MI), William Milliken (R-MI), Walter Mondale (D-MN), David Durenburger (R-MN), Scott Westman (D-MT), Helen Brisco (R-MT), Thomas McIntyre (D-NH), Malcolm McLane (R-NH), Thomas Kean (R-NJ), Millicent Fenwick (R-NJ), Jacob Javits (R-NY), Quentin Burdick (D-ND), Warren Ford (R-ND), Paul Pfeifer (R-OH), Victor Atiyeh (R-OR), Claiborne Pell (D-RI), John Chafee (R-RI), George McGovern (D-SD), James Garner (R-TX), Lawrence Coventry (R-VT), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Santiago St. Avila (R-WA), Jasper Morrill (R-WA), William Proxmire (D-WI), Gaylord Nelson (D-WI), Alan Simpson (R-WY) (44)

Abstain: Alan Cranston (D-CA), Larry Pressler (R-SD), Malcolm Wallop (R-WY) (3)
18  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Regional Governments / Re: Ne1:Improving The Chain Of Command Amendment on: April 24, 2013, 08:39:47 am
What if the Lieutenant Governor and the Speaker are the same person?

That's a problem.

I really think these post should be separate for this very reason. Suggestions?

One could make the case that holding the posts of both the Speaker and Lieutenant Governor violates the dual-office clause.
19  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: April 21, 2013, 12:19:52 am
TIME – No clear end on engagements
May 26th, 1985

President appeals to Congress on Panama

Almost a whole year ago, Panamanian military forces led by Omar Torrijos seized the Panama Canal by force, and in addition launching a siege on several U.S. military bases in Panama. Strike teams successfully bombed and incapacitated the Panama Canal within minutes, compromising a serious asset for most Western nations.

Currently, most U.S. servicemen in Panama have been confined to Fort Randolph. Normally the U.S. Military would have met such an offense with speedy reprisal, but the President has spent most of his political capital on Middle Eastern affairs and has been using surplus supplies to tide the servicemen over. However, having now won reelection, the President has been appealing to his liaisons in Congress to sponsor a resolution authorizing police action in Panama.

Pressure mounts on Iranian War

The days have long passed since the Iranian War enjoyed popularity with the American public. The tide began to shift during the 1984 election, when it was apparent that nearly half of the country disapproved of the war. There was a brief surge in popularity when the military seized the Iranian capital of Tehran.

However, such popularity seems to be short-lived and inconsequential. Recently there has been strong pressure from the international community, especially neighboring Middle Eastern states, to peacefully resolve the conflict. Turkey, which has been the primary landing base for the U.S. Military, has indicated an unwillingness to continue assistance without an end in sight.

The President has stated that this issue is the raison d’etre of his administration, and “in no uncertain terms, intends to hold firm.” However, there is less than a year’s funding authorized for continued operations, and a large rump of legislators within the President’s own party has indicated an unwillingness to appropriate more funds without conditions for withdrawal.
20  Atlas Fantasy Elections / Voting Booth / Re: April 2013 Federal Election: At-large Senate on: April 19, 2013, 12:56:40 am
[1] Napoleon
[2] Kalwejt
[3] Matt
[4] Hagrid
[5] Mr. X
[6] Poirot
21  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: April 17, 2013, 10:56:16 pm
Optimism: 1985

Thad O’Connor entered the Drunken Dutchman a few days after the vote, to find Areus Ho’kee sitting alone at the bar. He wore a purple shawl, and took drags of a long pipe while absent-mindedly staring at a collection of bottles on a shelf behind the bar. Thad meandered his way toward the bar and plopped himself down one stool away from Areus. The bartender readily approached Thad and asked, “What’ll it be this evening?”

“I’ll take a Jack… er, I have my own mixer,” he said, reaching into his back pocket for a can of Moxie. “Aha! Come over here, my friend!” exclaimed Areus, who quickly picked up on Thad’s voice. He looked toward Thad with a gregarious smile, and waved his hand for him to slide over to the next stool. Thad moved over, while outstretching his hand to grab his drink.

“What have I done wrong this evening?” asked Areus, as he put his arm over Thad’s shoulder. It was only now that Thad noticed Areus was quite drunk. He looked down forlornly into his drink, murmuring, “I have been distraught over my failure, and wished to avoid you.” “There is no need to be discouraged, Thad. You stood against a bill supported by the leadership, that few Senators cared about other than those who were receiving pork for their states. And you nearly had it defeated!” Areus exclaimed.

“While you may have failed in blocking its passage, you drew attention to the issue and made the issue into a political loser for the Administration. It was a job well done. Now, we’re going to move on to more important things,” said Areus. “Such as what?” asked Thad. Areus spun toward him at this point and grasped Thad’s shoulders, drawing him in. “This next election, we are going to take back the House,” he whispered with fervor.

“How?” asked Thad. “For too long, Democratic Representatives have won reelection solely on the merits of their own machine apparatus and personal appeal. Their constituents are totally unaware of their Representatives’ complicity in the current state of affairs. We’re going to change that! These peons will finally be brought to bear for their subservience to the President.

Panama. The Iranian War. Social Security. These will be the issues that will be the undoing of Congressional Democrats,” said Ho’kee. “We shall nationalize this election, and I am more than willing to spearhead the effort,” he continued. “Understood,” replied Thad. “I must ask, though, what brings you out here? This is not a usual venue for you.”

At this point the creaking of a door was loudly audible and most patrons of the bar had turned their attention to a female socialite who was walking through the door. “Actually, I was awaiting a date,” said Areus with a canny grin. He rushed over to the woman and quickly locked arms with her, prompting Thad to ask, “What about Prudence?”

Areus looked at him as if he were daft. “Prudence is looking after the estate, hopefully. She does like to laze about, though.” Areus responded. “Anyway, it was good talking to you Thad, but I have some business to attend to,” he continued, before waltzing out the door.
22  Forum Community / Forum Community / Re: Atlas Posters Page 3 Survivor - Day 13 on: April 17, 2013, 06:29:54 pm
Speed of Sound
23  General Politics / Individual Politics / Re: 1972 United States Presidential Election on: April 15, 2013, 08:47:36 pm
How on earth did I miss this? McCloskey, FTR.  After all, he's not a party switcher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_McCloskey#Change_of_political_affiliation
24  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion / Election What-ifs? / Re: Dust In The Wind on: April 12, 2013, 11:59:03 pm
TIME – Agriculture Bill Passes
March 6th, 1985

President Jackson’s pet project, the Western Revitalization Act of 1985, or Exon-Burbank, was passed by a stunning one-vote margin in the Senate. Given the preponderance of Republicans in Western and rural areas, most were loathe to debate the issue out of worry that it would endanger their reelection prospects. However, Senator Thad O’Connor of Maine took to the floor on the issue and led the charge in an attempt to win over fiscal conservatives and Democrats in industrial states to vote against the bill.

However, the bill had been strongly supported by the Democratic Leadership, which placed pressure on some of its most reliable stalwarts – coincidentally, some of which represented industrial states. Thad’s efforts would ultimately be in vain, and the bill passed the Senate.



VOTE ON THE WESTERN REVITALIZATION ACT OF 1985

Aye: Howell Heflin (D-AL), Ted Stevens (R-AK), Clark Gruening (D-AK), Bob Stump (D-AZ), Dennis DeConcini (D-AZ), David Pryor (D-AR), Dale Bumpers (D-AR), Alan Cranston (D-CA), Joe Biden (D-DE), Lawton Chiles (D-FL), Richard McPherson (D-FL), Sam Nunn (D-GA), Herman Talmadge (D-GA), Alex Seith (D-IL), Dan Rostenkowski (D-IL), Richard Lugar (R-IN), John Culver (D-IA), Bob Dole (R-KS), Joan Finney (D-KS), Walter Huddleston (D-KY), Wendell Ford (D-KY), Bennett Johnston Jr. (D-LA), Russell Long (D-LA), Paul Sarbanes (D-MD), John Stennis (D-MS), Patton Wyde (D-MS), Walter Mondale (D-MN), Thomas Eagleton (D-MO), James Exon (D-NE), Edward Zorinsky (D-NE), Howard Cannon (D-NV), Bruce King (D-NM), Harrison Schmidt (R-NM), Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY), Robert B. Morgan (D-NC), John Ingram (D-NC), Quentin Burdick (D-ND), John Glenn (D-OH), David Boren (D-OK), Wes Watkins (D-OK), Bob Duncan (D-OR), John Murtha (D-PA), Ernest Hollings (D-SC), Marilyn Lloyd (D-TN), Jim Sasser (D-TN), Orrin Hatch (R-UT), Patrick Leahy (D-VT), Andrew Miller (D-VA), Jennings Randolph (D-WV), Robert Byrd (D-WV) (50)

Nay: Jefferson Dent (D-AL), Pete McCloskey (R-CA), Gary Hart (D-CO), Bill Armstrong (R-CO), Lowell Weicker (R-CT), Christopher Dodd (D-CT), William Roth (R-DE), Daniel Inouye (D-HI), Spark Matsunaga (D-HI), Frank Church (D-ID), Orval Smylie (R-ID), Birch Bayh (D-IN), Frederic Reid (R-IA), Thad O’Connor (R-ME), Ralph Stevenson (R-ME), Charles Mathias (R-MD), Bill Weld (R-MA), Mic Ceriel (R-MI), William Milliken (R-MI), David Durenburger (R-MN), John Danforth (R-MO), Scott Westman (D-MT), Helen Brisco (R-MT), Paul Laxalt (R-NV), Thomas McIntyre (D-NH), Malcolm McLane (R-NH), Thomas Kean (R-NJ), Millicent Fenwick (R-NJ), Jacob Javits (R-NY), Warren Ford (R-ND), Paul Pfeifer (R-OH), Victor Atiyeh (R-OR), John Heinz (R-PA), Claiborne Pell (D-RI), John Chafee (R-RI), Strom Thurmond (R-SC), George McGovern (D-SD), Larry Pressler (R-SD), James F. Garner (R-TX), Bill Archer (R-TX), Jake Garn (R-UT), Lawrence Coventry (R-VT), Harry Byrd (D-VA), Santiago St. Avila (R-WA), Jasper Morrill (R-WA), William Proxmire (D-WI), Gaylord Nelson (D-WI), Malcolm Wallop (R-WY), Alan Simpson (R-WY) (49)

Abstain: Ted Kennedy (D-MA) (1)


Negative Growth in the First Quarter

Despite promises of robust economic growth in his second term, the first quarter has seen shrinkage in economic growth. Economic activity fell compared to Q4 of the previous year, and unemployment rose to 8.1%


Presidential Approval Ratings

25  General Politics / U.S. General Discussion / Re: Tea Party Founder: It's Over on: April 11, 2013, 12:06:37 am
It never began.

This. It was just the conservative movement flexing its muscles under a different name.
you mean "conservative" movement. as has been pointed out even by a lot of leftists by now on forum "conservatism" in the us doesn't really exist. it's more of a vague umbrella term for anyone that isn't a social democrat than an actual ideology.
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