StevenNick and Reaganfan Debate

[StevenNick]

Due to the recent debate over which candidate the conservatives of the board should rally behind, I challenged Reaganfan to a debate to highlight the differences between us.  We conducted the first round of our debate a few minutes ago.  The debate was cut short, but hopefully Reaganfan and I will have the opporunity to continue at a future time.  Here's the transcript of the IM debate (nicholsfornixon is StevenNick and steelie1955 is Reaganfan):

nicholsfornixon: So, here begins the first debate between Reaganfan and StevenNick.
steelie1955: ok
nicholsfornixon: Let's begin with education.
steelie1955: ah yes
nicholsfornixon: I support vouchers.
steelie1955: I do as well
nicholsfornixon: But I don't think vouchers are a complete panacea of all the problems that plague our educational system.
steelie1955: they are not. We need to help childern along
nicholsfornixon: Vouchers are a good way to start leveling the playing field between rich and poor students, white and minority.
steelie1955: but they need to prove themselves
nicholsfornixon: But beyond that we need to increase standards for teachers.
nicholsfornixon: I'd like to see states start dissolving some of the ridiculous requirements to become a teacher.
nicholsfornixon: Why do we make teachers have teachers certificates?
steelie1955: I think that would be needed to help teachers become better with teaching children
nicholsfornixon: Why not let someone with a degree in history teach history?
steelie1955: The thing is, some kids learn more on their own
nicholsfornixon: How do you feel about No Child Left Behind?
nicholsfornixon: Personally, I think NCLB is a horrible bill.
steelie1955: I feel strongly supported towards it
nicholsfornixon: It tramples on state's rights and saddles schools with a new set of standards based wholly on standardized testing.
steelie1955: We can not have our kids going around left behind, we must help them.
nicholsfornixon: The sooner we get rid of it the better.
nicholsfornixon: I agree.
steelie1955: I disagree
nicholsfornixon: We must help them.
nicholsfornixon: But how does the NCLB act help them?
steelie1955: It is right to help them, but they can't do it all on their own
nicholsfornixon: All it does is increase a child's ability to take tests.
steelie1955: at least not all kids
steelie1955: yes, and thus making thenm smarter and better prepared for life
nicholsfornixon: As far as giving a student real problem solving skills that can be applied to real life, NCLB only exacerbates existing problems.
nicholsfornixon: The fact is, our current education system does virtually nothing to prepare students for real life.
steelie1955: Well, keep NCLB act
nicholsfornixon: Why not increase access to vocational programs for high schoolers?
steelie1955: In my opinion
steelie1955: They have been increased
steelie1955: I pick next subject
nicholsfornixon: We should liberalize our blanket standards for students in order to give individual schools, students, and teachers the ability to design course loads that will fit each individual students goals and needs.
nicholsfornixon: I'm not done talking about education.
steelie1955: neither am I
steelie1955: THE NCLB act is working
nicholsfornixon: Another problem I have with the NCLB act is the amount of money it spends.
steelie1955: I believe education is doing well
steelie1955: We need money to help kids
nicholsfornixon: The NCLB act is working if the only thing you consider is test scores.
steelie1955: not true
nicholsfornixon: Test scores don't prepare students for real life.'
steelie1955: ...
steelie1955: Yes they do
nicholsfornixon: Money is not the solution to our education problem.
steelie1955: yes it is
nicholsfornixon: We already spend more money on education than any other country in the world.
nicholsfornixon: And what do we have to show for it?
nicholsfornixon: Nothing.
steelie1955: Without money, we can not pass education bills
nicholsfornixon: First thing we need to do is get the federal government out of the business of regulating school districts.
steelie1955: yes
nicholsfornixon: The federal government does a pretty piss poor job helping kids get by in the real world.
nicholsfornixon: How can you favor loosening federal control of education and support NCLB at the same time?
nicholsfornixon: NCLB is the biggest expansion of government control of local education since the public education system was created.
steelie1955: We need government control, but we can not have TOTAL CONTROL OVER EDUCATION BY THE GOVERNMENT
nicholsfornixon: It's a big albatross around our neck.
steelie1955: total control is, yes
nicholsfornixon: But where do you draw the line?
steelie1955: School districts
nicholsfornixon: What about them?
steelie1955: After that, it becomes too much
nicholsfornixon: So then how can you support NCLB?
nicholsfornixon: I think the 10th amendment to the constitution makes it very clear that the federal government doesn't have the right to regulatate education at any level.
nicholsfornixon: Let the states do what they want with education.
nicholsfornixon: Repeal all federal education regulations.
nicholsfornixon: That's what I say.
nicholsfornixon: Do you disagree?
steelie1955: yes
nicholsfornixon: Then how do you plan on fixing the education problem in this country?
steelie1955: States need to have SOME government control in my opinion
nicholsfornixon: I'm talking about the federal government.
steelie1955: Having some, but NOT TOTAL government control in schools
nicholsfornixon: What government are you talking about?
steelie1955: fed
nicholsfornixon: Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

nicholsfornixon: I think that's very clear.
nicholsfornixon: Where does the constitution give the federal government the right to regulate education?
steelie1955: well, we disagree
nicholsfornixon: And I think it's very important that we both recognize that I'm right and you're wrong.  :-)
nicholsfornixon: Alright.  Next topic.
nicholsfornixon: You get to pick.  And let's give each other more time to respond to each other.
nicholsfornixon: I'd like to give more thoughtful responses instead of this rapid fire, one-line answer stuff.
steelie1955: Iraq
nicholsfornixon: I've supported the concept of the Iraq war since it was first brought up.  I support it today.
nicholsfornixon: I think we've made some mistakes there, but I don't see any realistic way that the terrorists in Iraq can win.
nicholsfornixon: I guess I would say that I'm cautiously optimistic.
nicholsfornixon: The quicker we can turn over some semblance of power to an Iraqi government the better.'
nicholsfornixon: And the quicker we can have real, accurate national elections in Iraq the better.
nicholsfornixon: At this stage I'd like to see us take more steps to secure the borders of Iraq.
nicholsfornixon: It's my understanding that a lot of the terrorists in that country are foreign fighters who've crossed the borders to kill our troops.
steelie1955: true
nicholsfornixon: We should increase troop numbers to seal the borders and accelerate training of new Iraqi troops as well.
steelie1955: ountil june 30th
nicholsfornixon: ?
nicholsfornixon: I think John Kerry's "plan" to get more international troops on the ground is totally bogus, though.
steelie1955: keep AN EXTRA AMOUNT of troops, then slowly pull them out on the 30th
steelie1955: i am sorry, I have to go The weather is bad
nicholsfornixon: We'll continue later.
steelie1955: I need to warn my mom
steelie1955: 730 ok?
nicholsfornixon: I'll go ahead and post this.
steelie1955: ok

[StevenNick]

Once again, Reaganfan is steelie1955 and I, StevenNick, am nicholsfornixon.

nicholsfornixon: What shall we debate about?
steelie1955: my weather plan
nicholsfornixon: What is your weather plan?
steelie1955: to have the Sec of the iNTERIOR lead a group called cane. Focus directly on WEATHER DISASTERS
steelie1955: In times of need FEMA, and RED CROSS are needed in times of terror, weather is alot as well. My plan will take the burden of them
nicholsfornixon: But why should they need to have the burden taken off of them?  That's their job.  FEMA's purpose is to help people who've been hurt from disasters.
nicholsfornixon: I don't see why we need another new program to help aleviate a non-existant problem.
nicholsfornixon: Not that I mean severe weather isn't a problem, we just already have programs to handle that.
steelie1955: it can happen
steelie1955: A 150 mph storm hits Miami, while a MONSTER terror attack occurs
steelie1955: Extra help is needed
steelie1955: By the way, i only want one term
nicholsfornixon: We already have FEMA, the Coast Guard, the National Guard, etc.
nicholsfornixon: Private organizations such as the Red Cross help as well.
nicholsfornixon: Not to mention local police and fire departments.
nicholsfornixon: Out of curiosity, why do you only want one term?
steelie1955: I just want to help the forum< I DON'T WANT POWER
steelie1955: I fI am president, i will do my duty
nicholsfornixon: In what areas do you think the forum needs help?  How do you plan to help the forum?
steelie1955: I plan on party restrictions
steelie1955: Now don't go crazy,listne first
steelie1955: OI plan on passing a bill where parties can oly run if they have 4 members or more
nicholsfornixon: But why should you limit the ability of candidates to run for office?
nicholsfornixon: Why should you limit speech?
nicholsfornixon: There's no need, no precedent, no excuse for taking such action.
steelie1955: Som e parties might only have two members, and cam]n not support a good base
nicholsfornixon: My party only has two members.  Should I be able to run?
steelie1955: yes, NO BILL
nicholsfornixon: I don't know what you're talking about.
steelie1955: there is no 4 people bill out yet
nicholsfornixon: And that's a good thing.
nicholsfornixon: The reason I introduced the preferential voting bill is to expand the number of choices voters have when they go into the ballot booth, not limit them.
nicholsfornixon: I have no problem with having a large number of candidates running for president or any other office.
steelie1955: well
nicholsfornixon: A successful democracy depends on the availability of ideas.  Candidates need to be able to speak about the issues they care about.  They need to be able to seek office with bureaucrats making arbitrary limitations on their ability to do so.
steelie1955: they can
nicholsfornixon: They can what?
steelie1955: speak their ideas
nicholsfornixon: But not as candidates.
nicholsfornixon: You would limit an independent candidate's right to run for office.
nicholsfornixon: I don't support that.  I think that plan is anathema to the principles of democracy and liberty.
nicholsfornixon: Your plan would prohibit me and StatesRights to run for president.
nicholsfornixon: Do you realize that?
steelie1955: yes, but you could build a base
steelie1955: i have to go
nicholsfornixon: But how will I have the opportunity to build a base if I can't run for office?
nicholsfornixon: Okay.  I'll post this and we'll continue later.

[PBrunsel]

Much like the Lincoln-Douglas Debates.

[YRABNNRM]

 "We can not have our kids going around left behind, we must help them"

Reaganfan got owned.

[StevenNick]

So, Reaganfan, I was curious what your position on trade is?  You seem to be the America first, Pat Buchanan type of conservative that wants to slap protective tariffs on a variety of imported goods just to protect a few manufacturing jobs that are probably on their way out anyway at the expense of jobs in every other sector of the economy.  Correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment.

It's probably obvious considering my party affiliation(Capitalist Pig) that I'm a die hard free trader.  Like JFK, I believe that a rising tide lifts all boats.  Free trade stimulates economic growth here at home as the prices of imported goods and domestically produced commodities drop.  Competition with foreign corporation brings about productivity gains which leads to economic growth.  Quality of life improves for people on both sides of the free trade agreements as jobs give poor third-world workers the opportunity to live better lives and cheap goods allow the poor here at home to enjoy a higher standard of living.

What are your thoughts Reaganfan?

[Reaganfan]

Well, we need all the jobs we can get. people complain, "I am out of work" well that is because there IS no work. Jobs over seas are needed. And i want ALL classes. Lower, middle and upper classes to live good lives. keep the money the y work so hard for. Get tax cuts. Get work. I want to help.

[StevenNick]

Well, we need all the jobs we can get. people complain, "I am out of work" well that is because there IS no work. Jobs over seas are needed. And i want ALL classes. Lower, middle and upper classes to live good lives. keep the money the y work so hard for. Get tax cuts. Get work. I want to help.

That's nice, but what does that have to do with free trade?

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

Will there be an actual debate with all the candidates before the election?

You all really should have had this debate as part of a the Republican party primary.

BTW, I would favor RF's ballot access plan if Independents and minor parties were allowed to get on by collecting "signatures".  But this is really not a problem at this point.

[StevenNick]

Will there be an actual debate with all the candidates before the election?

You all really should have had this debate as part of a the Republican party primary.

BTW, I would favor RF's ballot access plan if Independents and minor parties were allowed to get on by collecting "signatures".  But this is really not a problem at this point.

I should hope there would be an actual debate with all the candidates.  I know we discussed it and decided we were all game.  I don't think we ever settled on a time, though.  If you would like to moderate a debate here on the forum that would be great.  If not, I'll probably just start a thread for the debate as soon as I'm done debating Reaganfan.

[Newsman]

I'd be a perfect debate moderator.  What else am I here for aside from playing the media.

[StevenNick]

I'd be a perfect debate moderator.  What else am I here for aside from playing the media.

Sure.  That's fine with me.  Why don't you start a thread right now where the candidates can debate.

[Fmr. Gov. NickG]

We should work out a format for the debate.  I agree with Newsman as moderator.  He should solicit questions from the forum members, and then post the best in sequence for candidates to answer.  Ideally all the candidates would answer one question before the next is posted.

To simulate a real debate, there should be word limits on the responses.  For instance: 150 words to answer, 100 for rebuttals.

[Newsman]

I agree with the Governor.  150 words for answers, 100 for rebuttals.

Opening statements, 200 words.

The sequence should rotate, starting in alphabetical order. (1. Gustaf 2.Nym 3.Reagan 4.States 5.Steven).

Send questions to thenewsman11@hotmail.com