Israel-Gaza war

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

https://twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1710708371593052456

It also doesn't help that Israeli forces have been tied down protecting colonial settlements in the West Bank rather than actually defending the border.

Don't misread me: I'm not saying that Israel, or the Israeli people especially, deserve this. I am saying the shocking lack of readiness on the part of the government is a direct consequence of their shortsighted and stupid actions in recent years. I don't even know how it's possible for an attack of this scale to be coordinated in 2023 without someone tipping something off.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Not to derail a fascinating thread about whether Palestinians should be able to vote in Israeli elections, but does anyone know where I can find updates on the ongoing war?

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Maybe we can get a two-for-one special with the bans here and get rid of Mattrose and Haley/Ryan at the same time. I assume that calling for genocide is a violation of TOS.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

...and why should it be the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who are forcefully deported?

The Palestinians were there before Israel was even a concept.

I oppose the mass expulsion of Arabs from Gaza (shocking that this even needs to be said), but this is a very bad argument. One could just as well say that the Israelis were there before Palestine was even a concept.

The correct answer is that forceful deportations are not a valid way of solving the problem, not that the Jews are the ones who "deserve" to be deported.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Hamas have just released a statement: they will execute the hostages (on video) if the unannounced (i.e. no roof knocking) airstrikes continue.

Are they actually stupid?

What should they do according to you?

Not execute innocent civilians on live TV???

What the f**k is wrong with you? Delete your account.

If a single American citizen is among the executed hostages I would fully support American strikes on Gaza.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

About 5 hours ago, I told my co-worker that Egypt was involved.  There simply wasn't a way for the Gazans to pull-off this attack without help along the Egyptian border, and I wouldn't be surprised if soldiers from other countries were sent along with the weapons.  My co-worker thought I was crazy when I suggested it, and then he thought I'd lost my mind when I said Israel needed to push into the Sinai Peninsula.  Now he's onboard with an invasion of Egypt, even though I'm not really sure of it myself.  LOL.  

Egypt has no interest in helping Gaza in an attack of this kind. Of all Israel's Arab Muslim neighbors, they have the best relations with Egypt. It's a low bar, but still. In addition, Egypt has spent most of the past few decades under a mostly secular military dictatorship, repressing both the political Islamists and Palestinian militant groups. It is not in the Egyptian government's self-interest to support Hamas, even if regional sentiment and diplomacy mean that they have to make pro-Palestinian statements.

Hell, there's even credible (if-unconfirmed) reports that Egypt tried to tip Israel off to the attack and were ignored. I find it hard to believe they had any part in this.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1711441857572725024
Israel threatens to destroy Damascus and remove Assad if Hezbollah joins the war.

Laki I don't think you should be banned but posting partisangirl in here really is not helping your case at all

I saw it on a Belgian internet forum.

Is there a source other than her for it? She doesn't exactly have the best record of credibility, and doesn't actually include any attribution for the quoted statement.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

https://twitter.com/Partisangirl/status/1711441857572725024
Israel threatens to destroy Damascus and remove Assad if Hezbollah joins the war.

Laki I don't think you should be banned but posting partisangirl in here really is not helping your case at all

I saw it on a Belgian internet forum.

Is there a source other than her for it? She doesn't exactly have the best record of credibility, and doesn't actually include any attribution for the quoted statement.

Well i have no idea, perhaps you're right that it is a fake account. But i'm wondering why it was posted on that Belgian internet forum in that case (which is also moderated to remove fake news etc.)

It's not so much that it's an outright fake account, but it is a very biased account which I wouldn't trust without some other confirmation.

I just find it hard to believe that with a war against Hamas in Gaza and a potential war against Hezbollah in Lebanon Israel would willingly open war on another front. 10+ years of civil war have made Syria weak, but it's not like the IDF is just going to march into Damascus unopposed.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

If this explosion was actually caused by Israel (or even worse, was deliberately caused), I don't see how they could possibly retain international support. Hell, they have to worry about a revolution in the West Bank and war on 3 or more fronts at that point (Hezbollah+Iran+West Bank involvement).

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

I have no idea if there actually are missiles stored at the hospital, I'd really like to see a source on that claim. But if there were, then an explosion of that size occurring "accidentally" is within the realm of possibility. There have been enough ammunition storage/magazine explosions in history to make that claim believable (Destruction of the Parthenon, Halifax Explosion, the Irish Public Records Office, USS Arizona, etc., etc.)

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Are there any instances of Palestinian missiles causing this kind of damage? I imagine terrorists would have done so already against Israeli target. Perhaps capable but missed? Or is this clearly a bunker buster?

No. Palestinian missiles are not this powerful.

It doesn't need to be powerful if it struck somewhere ammunition was being stored. It is possible that either a building at the hospital site or a neighboring building was being used for such purpose. You can hardly rule it out, especially given the GeoConfirmed analysis. It certainly isn't confirmed that a Palestinian rocket caused the explosion but it is a definite possibility.

I would wager the reason you don't see similar explosions in any cases where Palestinian rockets have landed in Israel is because the IDF is an actual military and follows proper ammunition storage procedures which are crafted specifically to prevent such explosions.

For the record, (relatively) small rockets have caused massive explosions like that on many occasions, just not in Israel as far as I'm aware. A single mortar round is the reason the Parthenon looks like it does today. This wouldn't be unprecedented.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous. There are massive protests in the region, diplomatic meetings being cancelled, and propaganda being spread all over the world, all because zero news organizations questioned taking Hamas’ statements at face value? It’s literally fake news. The hospital was not hit. It borders on physically impossible for 500 to 900 people to have even been in a parking lot that small at any given time, so the casualty count is definitely made-up too.

People assumed that the news wouldn’t report on something so easily checkable (does the hospital still exist) without having some evidence, so they came up with odd theories about bunker buster bombs and ammunition storage. Turns out it was none of that. All signs point to this literally being a single stray Palestinian rocket which fell in the hospital parking lot, causing minor damage, and hopefully hitting no more than a score of people.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

There are, in fact, several things Biden could do:

* He could impose a no-fly zone and obliterate the Israeli Airforce

Huh?

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CybLhohSTqf/

That is like a Nazi sympathiser asking the USA and Great Britain to start fighting each other on the day of the Normandy invasion in WW2.

At this stage, a more viable option is for President Biden to withdraw funding of $1 Billion annually to Egypt until they open the Rafah border and start taking Gazan refugees.

Rinse and repeat with Jordan.

At that stage, would you be surprised to learn of any potential links between Egypt and Hamas?

Jordan has absorbed so many refugees over the past 75 years (not merely Palestinians but, in more recent years, Iraqis and Syrians) that the number of refugees and their descendants vastly outstrips the "indigenous" population.

“Why don’t you just make Jordan the Palestinian state?”

Hashemite monarchy: —….—

Ironically, this is the same sort of flippant unconcern with how deeply traumatizing population movements can be that you see with people who insist that the Allies should have made the Zionists set up their state in Uganda or wherever.

A massive forced population transfer of Armenians out of Azerbaijan occurred earlier this year and the international community more or less ignored it.

No one forced the Armenians out of the N-Z region of Azerbaijan. They left on their own accord despite Azerbaijan saying they could stay. The N-Z was an self governing autonomous region that no one in the world recognized. Azerbaijan had every right to take control of its own internationally recognized territory. The Armenians just didn't want to live under Azerbaijan control

Saying that nobody “forced” the Armenians to leave is so deceptive that it’s practically a lie. Their territory, unrecognized or not, was conquered by a dictatorship which has shown no sign of respecting their rights or freedoms. Aliyev has repeatedly denied that Armenia is a real nation and has claimed it has no right to exist. In 2008 an Azeri soldier murdered a sleeping Armenian while in Hungary to take an English course. He was extradited to Azerbaijan to complete his sentence, where he was instead pardoned, promoted, and given a hero’s welcome by Aliyev. Azerbaijan just spent months blockading and starving out the territory in violation of previous agreements. During the war Armenians were tortured, executed in captivity, and in more than one case, beheaded on video.

The flight of the Armenians occurred because this is who conquered their territory. A dictatorship which has committed repeated atrocities against Armenians in Nagorno Karabakh and elsewhere. Frankly it was the only sane option. But yes, you are technically right that nobody actually forced every Armenian to leave at gunpoint.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Saw on the news that the Houthis (One of the three factions controlling parts of Yemen at present) have "declared war" on Israel. Is this real, and if so, does it matter? Yemen isn't exactly close to Israel.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Bruh.

https://twitter.com/spectatorindex/status/1721070704806989884?t=lBcBa13yzPZsPl0W...

Is this the first time Israel has ever admitted to having nuclear weapons at all? As far as I’m aware they have always been silent on the issue and maintained ambiguity.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

The amount of guns and grenades in a normal hospital which is being used for its intended purpose is 0. Hamas clearly doesn’t meet that standard.

That being said, Israel claimed that much more was happening there. If they can’t show any actual evidence after all this it’s another big blow to the credibility of their intelligence. The Israeli forces are behaving in an increasingly unjustified manor and eventually there is going to be a breaking point in western support. (That being said, the notion that the US can just “pull the plug” on Israel is absurd. Continued American support is helpful, but by absolutely no means necessary for them to pursue the war they are fighting).

Ideally this ends with:
- Hamas eliminated
- Prompt Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip
- Establishment of some other transitional governing body in the Gaza Strip, maybe a return to the Palestinian Authority
- An end to the illegal West Bank settlement program which ties down Israeli forces and serves only to fuel the most deranged elements of Israeli society.
- Cleaning house in Israeli intelligence after their myriad failures here.
- Netanyahu in prison.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

An end to Israeli settlements would be a perfectly reasonable condition for continued American support. There is no possible justification for settlements, especially if you are trying to work towards a two-state solution.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

An end to Israeli settlements would be a perfectly reasonable condition for continued American support. There is no possible justification for settlements, especially if you are trying to work towards a two-state solution.

It would be wildly unacceptable to demand Israel evacuate over half a million people from the West Bank in the middle of a war. The Biden administration is not going to use the worst crisis in Israel in half a century to extort concessions from its ally.

If Israel doesn’t stop building settlements in the West Bank then the US shouldn’t be its ally. We shouldn’t be allies with a nation which is undertaking an active colonial project in AD 2023. If Israel wants aid they should commit to halting settlement. I did not say that everyone had to leave immediately. This is also something that I’ve believed for some time, and is frankly something that US aid to Israel should have been conditioned on in the past. It isn’t just about the current war.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Just because they didn't plan to attack a music festival doesn't change the fact they attacked a music festival.

Serendipitous mass murder is different. They just happened across the music festival, which makes them blameless in cutting down hundreds of people in cold blood.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Israel's Minister of Communications suggesting to cut off the foreskins of Hamas fighters is incredible content, really. They should also burn all images of Allah in Gaza while they're at it. That will be a proper revenge.

There are no images of Allah. An image of God is one of the most haram/salacious in Islam.

That's the point

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Benjamin Netanyahu's entire government needs to be purged from politics after this. Probably a lot of Israel's intelligence apparatus as well. What a disgrace.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Biden should make clear to Netanyahu that we are not going to support some loony invasion of Lebanon. If any Israeli troops cross the border we should cut off all aid. I believe Israel does have a right to defend itself, even if I disagree with their exact methods. Invading Lebanon, giving carte blanche to psycho settlers in the West Bank, these are things we should not be supporting.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Highly disturbing developments coming out of Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/13/it-is-a-time-of-witch-hunts-in-israel-teacher-held-in-solitary-confinement-for-posting-concern-about-gaza-deaths

An unlikely charge of intent to commit treason landed Meir Baruchin, a grey-haired, softly spoken history and civics teacher, in the solitary confinement wing of Jerusalem’s notorious “Russian Compound” prison in early November.

The evidence compiled by police who handcuffed him, then drove to his apartment and ransacked it as he watched, was a series of Facebook posts he’d made, mourning the civilians killed in Gaza, criticising the Israeli military, and warning against wars of revenge.

“Horrific images are pouring in from Gaza. Entire families were wiped out. I don’t usually upload pictures like this, but look what we do in revenge,” said a message on 8 October, below a picture of the family of Abu Daqqa, killed in one of the first airstrikes on Gaza. “Anyone who thinks this is justified because of what happened yesterday, should unfriend themselves. I ask everyone else to do everything possible to stop this madness. Stop it now. Not later, Now!!!”

Ten days after that Facebook message, he was fired from his teaching job in Petach Tikvah municipality. Less than a month later he was in a high-security jail, detained to give police more time to investigate critical views he had never tried to hide.

He was interrogated again before a second judge ordered his release. Questioners told him his posts were like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, among the most famously antisemitic documents in the world. “I’m a history teacher, so I asked, ‘Did you ever read them?’ They didn’t respond.”

When his name is clear, Baruchin plans to sue Israeli media who reported police charges without asking for his response or looking for evidence, and accused him of justifying and legitimising Hamas.

Only Democracy in the Middle East^TM

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

Full incorporation of the West Bank is almost certainly the only way to ensure Israel's long term survival– if another state were allowed to form in the West Bank, even if there is a peace treaty in the short term, the geographic reality would effectively make it a Sudetenland striking at the heart of a much more indefensible Israel. There's no way that the creation of a state on high ground within ten miles of almost all Israeli cities should even be seen as an option to be contemplated, really.

The question is what the best way of going about West Bank annexation would be. That's hard to say.

The idea that countries have a right to conquer and annex their surroundings for “security reasons” went by the wayside some time in the last century. Israel does not have a right to annex the West Bank to improve the defensibility of its borders, in the same way that Russia doesn’t have a right to annex the Donbas to improve the defensibility of its borders. This line of thinking is absurd.

[Anti-Trump Truth Socialite JD Vance Enjoying Juror]

https://fxtwitter.com/ShaykhSulaiman/status/1753198140839153700

Israel bombed the Belgian embassy in Gaza. We need to activate Article 5 - not just because this is itself an act of war, but also because if we don't, it'll show that NATO is basically toilet paper. I can't even.

You expect people to believe that you aren't a troll when you post sh**t like this?

Stop hyperventilating and think about what you're asking for: You want NATO to declare war on a nuclear power, for what was likely an accidental strike. Are you insane? Do you think China should have started WWIII by declaring war on all of NATO in 1999 after the Chinese embassy in Belgrade was hit? Do you think the USA should have invaded Iran after the Beirut embassy bombings?