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| | |-+  The Biggest Damned-Fool Mistake I Ever Made: by Dallasfan65 and hantheguitarman
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Author Topic: The Biggest Damned-Fool Mistake I Ever Made: by Dallasfan65 and hantheguitarman  (Read 15700 times)
Hashemite
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« Reply #125 on: April 26, 2010, 04:16:18 pm »
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The Check people! A new nation!
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20:12   oakvale   Taylor Swift's 22 was originally titled 75 in reference to her ex Flanby's proposed tax rate

Quote
20:49   Snowstalker   yes, but i'm the kind of fascist who would have backed the allies
20:57   Snowstalker   sadly, it's a legitimate ideology tarnished by the incompetent mussolini and the vile hitler
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hantheguitarman
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« Reply #126 on: April 26, 2010, 09:38:15 pm »
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With regards to the Cold War ending so abruptly, I bring you this

The Wallace Administration's Cold War policy can be summed up in four words from Secretary of State Ronald Reagan: "We win. They lose." While Reagan was initially hesitant to resign as California Governor, President Wallace promised to allow Reagan to do whatever it took to, in Reagan's words "send the Soviet Union into the ash heap of history." Secretary Reagan recommended an increase in defense spending, and a military buildup, drawing the Soviets into an arms race. Poor crop yields from the USSR made maintaining the Soviet economy and keeping up with the United States difficult for the Soviets, and the USSR economy began to seriously falter. Reagan also recommended helping anticommunist insurgencies, even if the anticommunist rebels weren't exactly fond of human rights, but one thing was certain: the Wallace Administration viewed Communism as evil, and would take all steps necessary to eradicate Communism from the face of the Earth.

and this

Due to a vast increase on military expenditures on the behalf of the United States, it preemptively initiated an "arms race", despite the policy of detente being in vogue at the time. The Soviet Union, slapped with multi-national embargos, squandering resources in Vietnam and on missile build up, had rapidly begun to decay from the inside out. Several nations openly began to depart from the "evil empire", and though not official, anyone with eyes could see that the Iron Curtain was being drawn far back.

These two paragraphs lead up to the end of the Cold War, as Wallace took a Reaganesque approach to the USSR. Additionally, Wallace bombed the crap out of North Vietnam and frightened the crap out of the Soviets, leading them to invest way too much of their capital in defense spending, bankrupting them.

As for Maddox/Thurmond, realize that at the time, Wallace and Connally were really popular and had enough capital to make those appointments with the Senate on their side. Finally, Connally chose Maddox because 1) they're great friends ITTL, 2) Maddox was Governor, and 3) Maddox's chicken restaurant showed that Maddox could run a thriving business, making him a good candidate for Secretary of Treasury (and it also increased Connally's populist appeal, as "the common man," a chicken restaurant owner, was Secretary of Treasury)
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cpeeks
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« Reply #127 on: April 27, 2010, 07:28:04 am »
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Well you have to keep in mind that though the Soviets were not embroiled in Afghanistan, which contrary to popular belief contributited as much them going bankrupt as the Reagan military expenditures of the 1980's, so i find it very hard to believe they would have spent so much so quick and went backrupt. Also  was Glastnost and Petroska were not taking place at the time, those two  programs led to the ultimate break up of the Soviet Union.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2010, 09:03:33 am by cpeeks »Logged
Hashemite
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« Reply #128 on: April 27, 2010, 07:30:06 am »
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Glasnost and Perestroika. Learn to spell.
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20:12   oakvale   Taylor Swift's 22 was originally titled 75 in reference to her ex Flanby's proposed tax rate

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20:49   Snowstalker   yes, but i'm the kind of fascist who would have backed the allies
20:57   Snowstalker   sadly, it's a legitimate ideology tarnished by the incompetent mussolini and the vile hitler
Dallasfan65
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« Reply #129 on: April 29, 2010, 09:38:54 pm »
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The 1980 Presidential Election

The Republican Nomination

Given John Connally's unpopularity, a number of Republicans stepped up to the field, including Illinois congressman John Anderson, Congressman George H.W. Bush, Congressman Phil Crane, and Texas Governor Ron Paul (who had won the Texas gubernatorial election in 1978, after serving as a congressman in Texas' 22nd District).

The Primaries



 

Blue - Paul Red - Bush Green - Crane

The Convention


Despite urgings amongst the establishment GOP to select John Anderson, a last hurrah for the days of Earl Warren, Governor Paul selected Oregon Governor Mark Hatfield, a man whom he felt was closest too him ideologically.
 
The Democratic Nomination

The Primaries

Despite the heavy unpopularity of President Connally, no members of the Democratic Establishment stepped forward to challenge Connally, and he was nominated on the first ballot.

The General Election

During the Presidential Debate, Ron Paul would grill President Connally on all fronts, such as the economy, and the unpopular war in Iran.

"(Moderator) Governor Paul, is there any question you would like to have the President forced to answer?"
"(Paul) Yes. Mr. President, why, have you sent over American troops to die to protect the Shah, a brutal, oppressive dictator who the Iranians hate?!"
"(Connally) The Shah of Iran was a great ally of us during the Cold War, protecting the Middle East from the evils of Communism. You don't run away when a friend's in trouble. If we allowed the students to overthrow the Shah, it would be a great affront to not only the Shah, but our honor."
"(Paul) THE COLD WAR'S OVER! We have lost over 5,000 Americans killed in Iran, plus the civilians killed. How many more do you want to lose? How many more men do you want to DIE before we come home? How long are you going to be there? How long -- what do we have to pay to save face? That's all we're doing, is saving face. It's time we came home."
"(Connally) Governor Paul, I've heard him many times talk about bringing the troops home, and how our operation in Iran, and how it's failed. And I want to tell you that that kind of isolationism, sir, is what caused World War II. We allowed...We allowed -- we allowed Hitler to come to power with that kind of attitude of isolationism and appeasement."
"(Paul) The real question you have to ask is why do I get the most money from active duty officers and military personnel? What the President is saying is totally distorted. He doesn't even understand the difference between non- intervention and isolationism. I'm not an isolationism, (shakes head) em, isolationist. I want to trade with people, talk with people, travel. But I don't want to send troops overseas using force to tell them how to live. We would object to it here and they're going to object to us over there."

A huge game change was thrust in the 1980 Presidential Election when California Governor, Democrat, and former Secretary of State Ronald Reagan endorsed Ron Paul. Reagan proclaimed: "Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country."

On the election day of 1980, the members of the Paul campaign were merely waiting for the official declaration of victory; most Demcrats found themselves going to bed early, whilst the President reportedly turned the television off.

The Ron Paul R[EVOL]ultion had begun.


 
Ron Paul/Mark Hatfield: 473 EV, 58.8% PV
John Connally/Ed Muskie: 65 EV, 40.8% PV
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Citizen (The) Doctor
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« Reply #130 on: April 29, 2010, 10:04:46 pm »
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I think Libertas wants to move into your timeline.
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justW353
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« Reply #131 on: April 29, 2010, 10:11:36 pm »
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Not for Paul winning the Presidency, but for...

Quote from: This TL jumping the shark
The Ron Paul R[EVOL]ultion had begun.
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So a lack of knowledge means I'm not welcome here? I've always wondered why there's a lack of Republicans on this forum and now I'm beginning to see why.
Dallasfan65
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« Reply #132 on: April 29, 2010, 10:15:43 pm »
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I think Libertas wants to move into your timeline.
Hell, I want to move into my timeline right now. Wink



Not for Paul winning the Presidency, but for...

Quote from: This TL jumping the shark
The Ron Paul R[EVOL]ultion had begun.

Huh
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Devilman88
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« Reply #133 on: April 29, 2010, 10:35:28 pm »
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Well, you just f**ked up a good timeline.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #134 on: April 29, 2010, 10:38:47 pm »
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Well, you just f**ked up a good timeline.
Because I made someone you don't like President?

Roll Eyes
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Devilman88
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« Reply #135 on: April 29, 2010, 10:41:06 pm »
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Well, you just f**ked up a good timeline.
Because I made someone you don't like President?

Roll Eyes

I never said I don't like Ron Paul, his views are just not inline with America's view to win any election.

But Im still a fan of the timeline Smiley
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« Reply #136 on: April 29, 2010, 10:47:51 pm »
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Well, you just f**ked up a good timeline.
Because I made someone you don't like President?

Roll Eyes

I never said I don't like Ron Paul, his views are just not inline with America's view to win any election.

But Im still a fan of the timeline Smiley

Well George Wallace has drastically moved the Democratic Party to a very populist ideology: left on economic issues and right on social issues, and Connally maintained this populism. It's only natural that the Republican Party, would, in response to that, move towards a very libertarian ideology: the exact opposite ideology of what Wallace and the Democrats stand for. Given the unpopularity of the Democrats in 1980, Americans would choose to vote for the opposite of the Democrats, Ron Paul.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2010, 10:49:49 pm by hantheguitarman »Logged

Devilman88
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« Reply #137 on: April 29, 2010, 10:54:42 pm »
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Well, you just f**ked up a good timeline.
Because I made someone you don't like President?

Roll Eyes

I never said I don't like Ron Paul, his views are just not inline with America's view to win any election.

But Im still a fan of the timeline Smiley

Well George Wallace has drastically moved the Democratic Party to a very populist ideology: left on economic issues and right on social issues, and Connally maintained this populism. It's only natural that the Republican Party, would, in response to that, move towards a very libertarian ideology: the exact opposite ideology of what Wallace and the Democrats stand for. Given the unpopularity of the Democrats in 1980, Americans would choose to vote for the opposite of the Democrats, Ron Paul.

Ah, I see, I didn't even think of it that way.. LOL sorry it all makes sense now.. lol
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SvenssonRS
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« Reply #138 on: April 29, 2010, 11:32:40 pm »
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Finally, there may be a bright future for American libertarianism.

EXCELLENT work.
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justW353
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« Reply #139 on: April 29, 2010, 11:33:28 pm »
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It was more of the "Revolution" thing.

Anyways, it does make sense.  Butterflies could send Paul to the White House...I'm interested in seeing where Paul sends America (just try not to put too much hackery in).
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So a lack of knowledge means I'm not welcome here? I've always wondered why there's a lack of Republicans on this forum and now I'm beginning to see why.
cpeeks
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« Reply #140 on: April 30, 2010, 06:46:16 am »
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How did Ron Paul carry the deep south?
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #141 on: April 30, 2010, 08:46:29 am »
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How did Ron Paul carry the deep south?

He didn't, Connally won most of the South.

If you're referring to the primaries, much of the Southern states he carried were after his opponents had dropped out.
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cpeeks
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« Reply #142 on: April 30, 2010, 10:04:54 am »
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My bad what I meant to say is how did Ron Paul not carry the deep south?
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hantheguitarman
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« Reply #143 on: April 30, 2010, 10:07:40 am »
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My bad what I meant to say is how did Ron Paul not carry the deep south?

Well the election pitted two Southerners against each other, which means that Connally stood a huge shot at winning the deep south too. Anyway, Connally ran on a platform of social conservatism while Paul ran as a social libertarianism. Paul's libertarianism ended up hurting him in the Deep South because they preferred the socially conservative John Connally. Nevertheless, the Deep South was really close like OTL 1980.
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Dallasfan65
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« Reply #144 on: April 30, 2010, 10:13:09 am »
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My bad what I meant to say is how did Ron Paul not carry the deep south?

Well the election pitted two Southerners against each other, which means that Connally stood a huge shot at winning the deep south too. Anyway, Connally ran on a platform of social conservatism while Paul ran as a social libertarianism. Paul's libertarianism ended up hurting him in the Deep South because they preferred the socially conservative John Connally. Nevertheless, the Deep South was really close like OTL 1980.

For states that, ITTL, have never voted Republican, Paul came very close to pulling MS/AL into the fold.
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cpeeks
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« Reply #145 on: April 30, 2010, 10:16:14 am »
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Ok I can buy that then.
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enlightened despot
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« Reply #146 on: May 03, 2010, 08:19:31 pm »
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I've really enjoyed this story, and hope it gets updated soon. It'll be interesting to see if Ron Paul can get his agenda through the congress/courts. I've got two questions after quickly rereading back to '52.

What's the current Supreme Court? Is it Rehnquist, Thurmond, Gallion, Stennis, Nixon, Warren, White, Brennan ... Dewey?

What ever happened to Jerry Brown going into music after the '64 convention? I imagine he's sung several popular protest songs and could still have a future in politics, although maybe he's laying low after an embarrassing disco album.
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hantheguitarman
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« Reply #147 on: May 03, 2010, 08:32:40 pm »
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I've really enjoyed this story, and hope it gets updated soon. It'll be interesting to see if Ron Paul can get his agenda through the congress/courts. I've got two questions after quickly rereading back to '52.

What's the current Supreme Court? Is it Rehnquist, Thurmond, Gallion, Stennis, Nixon, Warren, White, Brennan ... Dewey?

What ever happened to Jerry Brown going into music after the '64 convention? I imagine he's sung several popular protest songs and could still have a future in politics, although maybe he's laying low after an embarrassing disco album.

Thanks! Smiley The court is Rehnquist, Thurmond, Gallion, Stennis, Nixon, White, Brennan, Brownell, and Lodge.

Jerry Brown is one of the most famous rock stars of all time, having joined a famous rock band with Jello Biafra, Jimi Hendrix (who never dies ITTL due to butterflies), Mitch Mitchell (Jerry plays bass). They broke up in 1975, and after recording a few hit solo singles, Brown went into early retirement. He and John Lennon (who also never died due to butterflies) are highly considering collaborating together on a musical project. 
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SvenssonRS
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« Reply #148 on: May 03, 2010, 08:42:55 pm »
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Jerry Brown is one of the most famous rock stars of all time, having joined a famous rock band with Jello Biafra, Jimi Hendrix (who never dies ITTL due to butterflies), Mitch Mitchell (Jerry plays bass). They broke up in 1975, and after recording a few hit solo singles, Brown went into early retirement. He and John Lennon (who also never died due to butterflies) are highly considering collaborating together on a musical project. 

Dude, that's amazing. Cheesy
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enlightened despot
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« Reply #149 on: May 03, 2010, 09:04:39 pm »
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Thanks! Smiley The court is Rehnquist, Thurmond, Gallion, Stennis, Nixon, White, Brennan, Brownell, and Lodge.

Jerry Brown is one of the most famous rock stars of all time, having joined a famous rock band with Jello Biafra, Jimi Hendrix (who never dies ITTL due to butterflies), Mitch Mitchell (Jerry plays bass). They broke up in 1975, and after recording a few hit solo singles, Brown went into early retirement. He and John Lennon (who also never died due to butterflies) are highly considering collaborating together on a musical project. 

Awesome stuff about Jerry Brown. What kind of justice has Nixon been?
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