A Second Chance

[CathKhan]

Wait, was Wallace shot ITTL?

No. Bremer shot Agnew on July 4th, 1973. Wallace is still around and is Governor of Alabama, got rid of his racist rhetoric as in TTL. He isn't running anymore, etc.

Did he still retain the "pissed off white man" aura as ITTL?  I wonder if he would've changed even if he weren't shot as otl, because he was quoted saying "I don't wanna meet my maker with unforgiven sins" after his pivot on Civil Rights

Eh, I chose to have him repent. I'm not in a mood to think that much about it. For his time, however, yes he was the pissed off white male. He won more states in '68 than in OTL, and won more primaries in '76 than OTL.

[CathKhan]

Now, what we're looking at here is a party that no longer even knows what it stands for. The era of the New Deal is now long over, and with it, Democratic dominance. You've got Southerners, African Americans, New Dealers, urban whites, farmers, seniors, and the youth all fighting for someone to represent them, and there's no consensus candidate. Now, here we are, the primaries are drawing to a close, and there's no undisputed front-runner. My friends, we may be heading to the convention!

June 6th, 1984

Dem Primaries Over!
Nomination to go to Convention?

With the final round of primaries being a complete split between the front-runners, there is no presumptive nominee for the Democratic nomination. With Mondale having the delegate lead, he nonetheless is nowhere near a majority. He's taken the North, Jerry Brown has taken the West, Jesse Helms has taken the South, and Jesse Jackson and Phillip Noel have had their own couple of victories. However, no-one has the delegate, support, or appeal to take the definitive lead. Therefore, unless some surprise is to happen in the next month, this will likely be taken straight to the Democratic National Convention in San Francisco in July.

"Dammit. That's it. If this party can't even decide on a damn nominee, how are they supposed to be able to scrape together something even close to a victory in November? Besides, unless someone like Jerry Brown is able to get the necessary delegates, I don't even plan on voting for this fuckup of a so-called political party in November. Especially now that it'll be a floor fight, with the old bosses like the Daleys and labor coming out of the woodwork, Brown's more unlikely to win than ever. Ah screw it. Right now I don't think I'll even be attending the convention at this rate."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

Final Democratic Primary Map

Blue-Senator Walter Mondale of Minnesota (1465 delegates)
Red-Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina (1191 delegates)
Yellow-Senator Jerry Brown of California (959 delegates)
Green-Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois (162 delegates)
Pruple-Senator Philip W. Noel of Rhode Island (27 delegates)

[Jerseyrules]

Interesting.  Btw, I can understand your decision regarding Wallace, honestly I'm not sure what I'd have him do, except maybe confess on his deathbed.  Why did he sit out 80 and 84, and who did he endorse, out of curiousity?

[CathKhan]

Interesting.  Btw, I can understand your decision regarding Wallace, honestly I'm not sure what I'd have him do, except maybe confess on his deathbed.  Why did he sit out 80 and 84, and who did he endorse, out of curiousity?

In 1980, the southern Democrats as a whole decided to support Kennedy as the opposition to the insurgent McCarthy. While a Southern candidate, maybe Wallace even, could have done very well, it very well could've split the vote in the South and parts of the West and Mid-West. Instead, they chose to support Kennedy due to his anti-communist foreign policy and general moderation. (Though, Wallace did receive write-in support in Alabama, making his state the only southern state to go for someone in under 50% margins) Wallace chose not to endorse anyone in '84, now more uncomfortable with Helm's rhetoric and not trusting him ("He's the candidate for Big Tobacco and Big Tobacco only!") as a candidate of the "common man", but also seeing the others as worse. By '84, as in RL, he was irrelevant and not factored in as a potential candidate.

[Jerseyrules]

Interesting.  Btw, I can understand your decision regarding Wallace, honestly I'm not sure what I'd have him do, except maybe confess on his deathbed.  Why did he sit out 80 and 84, and who did he endorse, out of curiousity?

In 1980, the southern Democrats as a whole decided to support Kennedy as the opposition to the insurgent McCarthy. While a Southern candidate, maybe Wallace even, could have done very well, it very well could've split the vote in the South and parts of the West and Mid-West. Instead, they chose to support Kennedy due to his anti-communist foreign policy and general moderation. (Though, Wallace did receive write-in support in Alabama, making his state the only southern state to go for someone in under 50% margins) Wallace chose not to endorse anyone in '84, now more uncomfortable with Helm's rhetoric and not trusting him ("He's the candidate for Big Tobacco and Big Tobacco only!") as a candidate of the "common man", but also seeing the others as worse. By '84, as in RL, he was irrelevant and not factored in as a potential candidate.

Makes sense.  Keep up with updates

[GLPman]

Looking forward to the convention. I'm secretly hoping for an anti-Mondale candidate to seal the nomination.

[MATTROSE94]

Overall, this is an incredible timeline! The only complain that I have is that you should have went over some of the important events in Richard Nixon's term such as the Cuban Missle Crisis and the passing of the Civil rights Act of 1963 in more depth. Other than that, this is an awesome timeline that should continue on!

Thanks a lot! When I started this out, it was meant to be from a 1968 POV so that one could get the context of where I was trying to go (anti-war Republican vs. Pro-war Democrat) and thus Nixon's presidency was only referred to in hindsight.

I understand what you mean about the POV of the timeline. I just have one question about the War in Vietnam. Was it originally escalated by President Nixon in 1964 or not until Kennedy took office in 1965?

[CathKhan]

Overall, this is an incredible timeline! The only complain that I have is that you should have went over some of the important events in Richard Nixon's term such as the Cuban Missle Crisis and the passing of the Civil rights Act of 1963 in more depth. Other than that, this is an awesome timeline that should continue on!

Thanks a lot! When I started this out, it was meant to be from a 1968 POV so that one could get the context of where I was trying to go (anti-war Republican vs. Pro-war Democrat) and thus Nixon's presidency was only referred to in hindsight.

I understand what you mean about the POV of the timeline. I just have one question about the War in Vietnam. Was it originally escalated by President Nixon in 1964 or not until Kennedy took office in 1965?

Eh, we'll say Nixon escalated it following Gulf of Tonkin.

[CathKhan]

The Democratic National Convention, San Francisco, California (July 16th-July 19th, 1984) Pt. 1

"In this field, there is no one with a greater record of public service and dedication than Walter Mondale. And that is dedication not just to one cause, but to many. To his country, to the working class, to the poorest and least privileged among us. It is that spirit and that dedication the Democrats need to win this November, and the spirit that will guide a successful Mondale Presidency!"

-Congresswoman Geraldine Ferraro (D-NY), July 16th

*     *     *

"The madness. The descent into chaos. The Fear and Loathing. Call it what you want, the Democratic National Convention was what it was. For fans of history, it might remind them of some Gilded Age convention, with several different factions fighting for control of a party for one election cycle and surrogates making speeches in favor of their cause or their candidate. There was some bright young starlet, Ferraro, from New York arguing in Mondale's favor. Rumor had it she was promised the VP ticket if Mondale could pull it together. For Helms there were some redneck congressmen and of course the indispensable Strom Thurmond. Meanwhile, several low-profile Civil Rights leaders from two decades previous suddenly found themselves in the spotlight as Jesse Jackson's candidacy was advocated. Governor Ed King of Massachusetts spoke in favor of Phil Noel who for some reason was now back in the game. And of course, Jerry Brown's nomination speech was delivered by none other than Mo Udall.

I found myself wandering over to the Helms supporters, mostly because they were by far the most entertaining. As some fascist from Brooklyn, the Honorable Congressman Rudolph W. Giuliani, stepped to the podium in advocacy of Mondale, the Helms people went into an outrage and I joined them too. "Oh, who am I? I'm from Kentucky and I hate that Yankee sonofabitch as much as you!" The jeers from that part of the hall were incredible and suddenly I found myself almost thinking what the crowd was thinkg. "Yeah! That Yankee fuck Mondale is gonna destroy this whole damn nation with his liberal bullshit!" I had to catch myself and remember what I was doing and why I was here: to observe. In order to keep a clear head, I wandered away, checking out the Jackson campaign area. I soon wandered away. At least as long as I stuck to my Southern roots, I was safe among the Helms people. God knows what would happen if I ran into some radical Jackson fanatic.

Just then, that good ol' boy from Minnesota had to come up. The inimtable, awful, Hubert H. Humphrey. Y'know, you never find out what a two-faced, horrible, scheming person ol' Hube is until you follow him on the campaign trail. And I did. For a God-awful couple of months in early 1972. "We must coalesce around the only proven leader, an incredible legislator and good friend of mine, Walter Mondale!" Yeah, keep talkin' Hube. We all know what a piece of slime you are. Passing by a group of Mondale supporters, it was awful. All middle aged, good party members. Probably dairy farmers or whatever the Hell they do up in Minnesota. Kentucky/Colorado guys  like me know not."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

*     *     *

[July 17th] A conversation between candidate Jesse Helms and campaign manager Lee Atwater in an upper suit at San Francisco's Moscone Center, the site for the 1984 Democratic National Convention.
    Atwater: We're still measuring the loyalty of the delegates. It looks like that, when the first ballot comes up, which should be soon, we'll hold at second.
    Helms: Good, good, but not quite good enough.
    Atwater: Look, I'm worried about this. The primaries are over. Campaigns for the popular vote are now long over. With that, we've got to completely switch mindsets. No more rhetoric, we've got to become pragmatic.
    Helms: Pragmatic? When's that ever been in my campaign's vocabulary!?
    Atwater: Fact is, now that we've staked out where we'll be on the first ballot of what could be many, we've got to look to make a deal. It's unlikely at this point that delegates will switch from these God-awful liberals like Brown and Mondale into your camp. Either some major scandal needs to emerge and fast, or we've got to look to combine delegates with someone.
    Helms: So I'm guessing that any rumors about Brown's connection with Buddhism haven't picked up steam?
     Atwater: Hardly. If we try to take that to a bigger level, it could be embarrassing.
     Helms: If what we've heard about Mondale trying to get Brown, and failing, then we've got no chance at all with Brown, so...
     Atwater: What I was thinking. Mondale is so desperate to retain control over the party, it's embarrassing. However, he's the only one looking for a deal, and we've got him by his balls!
     Helms: Hah! Of course, we'll need something in return...
     Atwater: What I've been considering is, if you're going to be kept off the ticket, which is highly likely in such a deal, we keep him off it too. Instead, we each nominate a substitute for President and Vice President respectively. By all accounts, Mondale or even you would lose. However, that leaves us in a very good position four years down the road.
     Helms: Very good. Have you got any ideas?
     Atwater: I'd like you to take a look at these....
The Senator rifles through the papers, nodding, but not making a specific decision.
     Helms: Well call the Mondale people up and see if a deal can be made, by God!

"Hello, Senator Mondale? Mr. Helms would like a word with you."

[I Can't Get That Sound You Make, Out Of My Head]

If Mondale endorses Helms......

[CathKhan]

If Mondale endorses Helms......

Far from it. Far, far from it. But there will be a deal made.

[Pacific Justice IBDD]

good work so far

[ChairmanSanchez]

What happened to Meldrim Thomson in this timeline?

[CathKhan]

What happened to Meldrim Thomson in this timeline?

Governor of New Hampshires 1973-1977, 1979-1981. Forwent re-election to primary Bush in '76, took second place. Ran on the third-party conservative ticket, got about .2% of the vote due to Republicans rallying around the Bush/Reagan ticket. Won election again as NH Governor in '78. Many expected him to jump into the 1980 field, but instead he sat it out and endorsed Reagan early on. Not sure what he's doing now.

[BritishDixie]

Is this topic carrying on, because it's great. A couple of questions...What's going on in U.K politics now?

[Gass3268]

Now, what we're looking at here is a party that no longer even knows what it stands for. The era of the New Deal is now long over, and with it, Democratic dominance. You've got Southerners, African Americans, New Dealers, urban whites, farmers, seniors, and the youth all fighting for someone to represent them, and there's no consensus candidate. Now, here we are, the primaries are drawing to a close, and there's no undisputed front-runner. My friends, we may be heading to the convention!

June 6th, 1984

Dem Primaries Over!
Nomination to go to Convention?

With the final round of primaries being a complete split between the front-runners, there is no presumptive nominee for the Democratic nomination. With Mondale having the delegate lead, he nonetheless is nowhere near a majority. He's taken the North, Jerry Brown has taken the West, Jesse Helms has taken the South, and Jesse Jackson and Phillip Noel have had their own couple of victories. However, no-one has the delegate, support, or appeal to take the definitive lead. Therefore, unless some surprise is to happen in the next month, this will likely be taken straight to the Democratic National Convention in San Francisco in July.

"Dammit. That's it. If this party can't even decide on a damn nominee, how are they supposed to be able to scrape together something even close to a victory in November? Besides, unless someone like Jerry Brown is able to get the necessary delegates, I don't even plan on voting for this fuckup of a so-called political party in November. Especially now that it'll be a floor fight, with the old bosses like the Daleys and labor coming out of the woodwork, Brown's more unlikely to win than ever. Ah screw it. Right now I don't think I'll even be attending the convention at this rate."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

Final Democratic Primary Map

Blue-Senator Walter Mondale of Minnesota (1465 delegates)
Red-Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina (1191 delegates)
Yellow-Senator Jerry Brown of California (959 delegates)
Green-Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois (162 delegates)
Pruple-Senator Philip W. Noel of Rhode Island (27 delegates)

I thought Jackson won Mississippi, not Louisiana?

[Jerseyrules]

Have Noel win a brokered convention!

[CathKhan]

Now, what we're looking at here is a party that no longer even knows what it stands for. The era of the New Deal is now long over, and with it, Democratic dominance. You've got Southerners, African Americans, New Dealers, urban whites, farmers, seniors, and the youth all fighting for someone to represent them, and there's no consensus candidate. Now, here we are, the primaries are drawing to a close, and there's no undisputed front-runner. My friends, we may be heading to the convention!

June 6th, 1984

Dem Primaries Over!
Nomination to go to Convention?

With the final round of primaries being a complete split between the front-runners, there is no presumptive nominee for the Democratic nomination. With Mondale having the delegate lead, he nonetheless is nowhere near a majority. He's taken the North, Jerry Brown has taken the West, Jesse Helms has taken the South, and Jesse Jackson and Phillip Noel have had their own couple of victories. However, no-one has the delegate, support, or appeal to take the definitive lead. Therefore, unless some surprise is to happen in the next month, this will likely be taken straight to the Democratic National Convention in San Francisco in July.

"Dammit. That's it. If this party can't even decide on a damn nominee, how are they supposed to be able to scrape together something even close to a victory in November? Besides, unless someone like Jerry Brown is able to get the necessary delegates, I don't even plan on voting for this fuckup of a so-called political party in November. Especially now that it'll be a floor fight, with the old bosses like the Daleys and labor coming out of the woodwork, Brown's more unlikely to win than ever. Ah screw it. Right now I don't think I'll even be attending the convention at this rate."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

Final Democratic Primary Map

Blue-Senator Walter Mondale of Minnesota (1465 delegates)
Red-Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina (1191 delegates)
Yellow-Senator Jerry Brown of California (959 delegates)
Green-Reverend Jesse Jackson of Illinois (162 delegates)
Pruple-Senator Philip W. Noel of Rhode Island (27 delegates)

I thought Jackson won Mississippi, not Louisiana?

Dang it. Went over the results a couple days ago and found you were right. Right now I'm debating whether or not to correct it. I really don't feel like it, ya know? Anyway, I'm preparing to launch into the DNC Part 2 soon.

[CathKhan]

The Democratic National Convention, San Francisco, California (July 16th-July 19th, 1984) Pt. 2

July 17th, 1984, continued
Lee Atwater sits in a stuffy suite with Mondale campaign manager Bob Beckel. Seeping through the walls and the glass windows is the dull roar of the convention floor. Leaning over, Atwater looks down at the factions fighting below.
    Beckel: Now, Lee, what the Hell did you call Mondale up here for?
    Atwater: You know as well as I do, Bob.
    Beckel: Don't give me some bullsh**t Lee. Just say it like it is.
    Atwater: Polling shows that both Mondale and Helms will lose badly in November in our current state. Not only that, there is little chance either of them will be the nominee. Even if one of our factions, or maybe someone else's, is able to wear down the delegates enough to gain a majority, the party will likely still be incredibly divided.
    Beckel: No need to worry about that. Mondale's gonna be swept in by the second ballot, even if we have to go through that.
    Atwater: No bullsh**t. The Democrats are as divided as they've ever been. You've read your history. I suppose 1924 would be a good example as any. Smith and McAdoo both couldn't win. After weeks of balloting, some no-name called John Davis somehow made it to the nomination just because he'd made the decision to stick it out for the hundreds of ballots and emerge as a compromise candidate.
    Beckel: What of it?
    Atwater: Davis ended up getting something around twenty-eight percent and Coolidge won a good majority in a three-way race. Now, I say we kill the problem, right now. I've got some approved names, and you can easily call Mondale and contact the convention leaders. Here, we get this done. We can get us a compromise candidate.
    Beckel: Hmmmm.... Who do you suggest?

"Let me call Mondale. I'll be back."

"At around the end of the seventeenth, or whatever day it was, I can't really think straight right now, rumor escaped that a compromise candidate had been suggested between Mondale and Helms. "Of course!" I thought "The two bastards, the Hubert Humphrey protege and the George Wallace wannabe! Of course those two bastards would team up!" Not much was sure, except that I'd be voting Republican or third party come November with a convention like this."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

"Ultimately, the list of potential candidates reached by Mondale's and Helm's people combined numbered over twenty. It included the following:
     -Former Governor Lloyd Bentsen of Texas (Helms and Mondale)
     -Former Vice President and Secretary of Education Terry Sanford of North Carolina (Mondale)
     -Former Senator Adlai E. Stevenson III of Illinois (Mondale)
     -Governor Edward King of Massachusetts (Helms)
     -Senate Minority Leader Robert Byrd of West Virginia (Helms and Mondale)
     -Governor William Winter of Mississippi (Helms)
     -Senator Jim Folsom Jr. of Alabama (Helms and Mondale)
     -Senator John McCain of Arizona (Mondale)
     -Senator Ernest Hollings of South Carolina (Helms)
     -Governor Daniel Patrick Moynihan of New York (Mondale)

All in all, when Helms and Mondale sat down, face to face, they felt their campaigns had put together a list of well qualified individuals. However, following a number of calls, very few were willing to run. Among those that were open were Bentsen, Winter, King, and Stevenson. Finally, a deal was made where Bentsen would be chosen for President and a pick of Mondale's choice for Vice President. Bentsen was competent, experienced, relatively popular, fairly moderate, and Southern. As well, he had tackled the issue of Texas' deficit while Governor and could go one-on-one with Hatfield and win conservatives. Some were worried about the reaction from labor, which had been a heavy Mondale supporter in the primaries, and from what were called the "Noel Democrats", a group of socially traditionalist Democrats, including Catholics, who were fiscally liberal but were pro-life on abortion. Bentsen, while appealing to conservatives, was himself pro-choice. However, his long career of public service and his support of the death penalty helped sell him to some skeptical delegation leaders.

Meanwhile, the first ballot passed and resulted with a split almost exactly along the lines that were predicted by numerous campaigns and spectators since the end of the primaries. It wasn't until two hours after the first ballot that Helms and Mondale stepped on stage to announce the compromise ticket. Delivering a speech about party unity, respect for compromise, and the need for a strong ticket to face Hatfield in November, Mondale stepped aside and let Helms discuss the career in service a President should have. Following applause from his respective delegates and a look of confusion from many, Helms stepped aside. With that, Bentsen stepped out on stage and delivered his speech, thanking both Mondale and Helms, announcing his candidacy for President of the United States, and pledging to lead the Democrats forward. With delegation leaders quickly springing to life and organizing their states' votes, the second ballot quickly approached and Bentsen was nominated with the majority of both Mondale's and Helms' delegates.

The nomination for Vice President proved just as chaotic. A number of Deep South delegates attempted to nominate Hollings, Bill Clinton, or Helms himself. Mike Gravel's name was entered with the support of a number of Brown's delegates. Jesse Jackson attempt to wade into the proceedings as well. However, with Mondale's choice of New York Representative Geraldine Ferraro, both his people and most of Helms' put their delegations in line to vote for Ferraro who became the first woman nominated on a major party ticket.

-Inside Look: The 1984 Democratic Fiasco, Mark Dayton, ©1992

"I was stunned. We were all stunned. But with that, there was one more day left. One more day of chaotic, loosely strung together speeches. And then it was all over and we went back home. All except for me of course, and a couple of other reporters. Camped out on the beach in a lawn chair, turned towards the city, I saw the Brown campaign plane fly back to Oakland. I heard the Mondale plane was busy being converted, and I flipped through the latest issue of TIME to see what they had on Ferraro. In terms of great historical jokes, this one ranks high."

-Sheeple: The 1984 Election, Hunter S. Thompson, ©1985

[Jerseyrules]

I'm Jerseyrules, and I approve this ticket

[CathKhan]

I'm Jerseyrules, and I approve this ticket

Thanks.
Who do you plan on supporting in November?

[CathKhan]

July 20th, 1984

Dems Nominate
Bentsen/Ferraro
First Woman on Ticket

"Yesterday, the Democratic National Convention ended. In what had been a roller coaster of a ride, former Texas Governor Lloyd Bentsen emerged as the candidate for the Democrats. While many different candidates, including the leading three of Senators Mondale, Helms, and Brown had battled it out in the primaries and gone into the convention as the three likeliest men to take the nomination, a last minute deal between Helms and Mondale following a first ballot that lacked a majority resulted in compromise candidate Bentsen's nomination.

Bentsen has served in politics since the 1940's, as a Representative from Texas. Following a ten-year retirement, he returned to politics to participate in John F. Kennedy's cabinet as the Labor Secretary following Adlai E. Stevenson's death in mid-1965. From there, he found himself re-joining the national discussion and re-entering the political arena. Following leaving Washington in 1973, he was elected Governor of Texas in 1974 and served from 1975 to 1983. During that time he tackled some of Texas' budget problems, brought in more business despite a recession, and won re-election by a large margin. Thought retired from politics, he obviously wandered into the discussion at the 1984 DNC and accepted an offer from Mondale and Helms to be nominated for President as a compromise candidate.

More interesting, however, is the choice for Vice President. In a history-making pick, New York Representative Geraldine Ferraro was nominated. Obviously the first woman ever nominated on a major party ticket, as well as the first Italian-American, Ferraro is a history-making choice. Her political career started ten years ago working as a District Attorney in Queens where she became known as an advocate for abused children and was assigned to the special victims unit. Running as a tough-on-crime liberal and a "small 'c' conservative" in 1978, she was elected by a ten-point margin to the U.S. House of Representatives in an election where dealing with crime was one of the key issues. In the House, Ferraro has gained respect from male colleagues as a tough and ambitious legislator.

Together, it is hoped by Democrats that these two can help them take back the White House in 1984. Bentsen represents Southern interests and could possibly sweep the Solid South in a good year while Ferraro represents the Northern, Catholic wing and can help in states such as Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and of course New York. With these two geographical advantages, it is hoped that the Democrats can beat President Hatfield whose strongest region remains the Interior and Coastal West."

[CathKhan]

Any thoughts on who Hatfield should choose for VP? I've got my eye on a couple North-Eastern Conservatives (an oxy-moron at points, but not in the case of this), and maybe a couple guys from the mid-west. Any thoughts?

[GLPman]

What about Pennsylvania's John Heinz?

[CathKhan]

What about Pennsylvania's John Heinz?

I'm looking for someone a bit more Conservative.