Anti-Conscription Amendment [Rejected]

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Aye

[For Oklahoma]

Nay.

[MOPolitico]

Nay

[Secretary Polnut]

I'm voting nay, and will put forward another amendment should this one fail.

[Junkie]

I'm voting nay, and will put forward another amendment should this one fail.

I might as well, maybe we could work on it.

As to the amendment, I think it is to restrictive and unworkable, thus I vote

Nay

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I'm voting nay, and will put forward another amendment should this one fail.

I might as well, maybe we could work on it.

As to the amendment, I think it is to restrictive and unworkable, thus I vote

At what point can we expect to see this amendment?

[Secretary Polnut]

I'm voting nay, and will put forward another amendment should this one fail.

I might as well, maybe we could work on it.

As to the amendment, I think it is to restrictive and unworkable, thus I vote

At what point can we expect to see this amendment?

Apologies...

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households. No conscripted solider will be compelled to serve in a front-line capacity.

Basically this... I don't expect those opposed to vote for this. It pretty much says that conscripted soldiers will on be on the front-line if they volunteer.

[TJ in Wisco]

Doesn't that defeat the point of having conscription under a land invasion? If we're getting invaded by Canada it doesn't make much sense to enact conscription and then station them in Japan or Germany or somewhere else.

[bgwah]

nay

[President Marokai]

This amendment is now failing.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This getting ridiculous. I hate the draft myself, but it serves a purpose in emergency situations. If we get all concerned about being 100% on preserving freedom at the expense of everything else, it is like sacrificing your saving/investing for 100% consumption in an economy. It doesn't work long term and you may find yourself with no freedom at all in the worst case scenario.

@20RP12
In this thread you seem to treat gov't in a particular way. The gov't is a reflection of us, and it exists because we let it by our choice. Its primary purpose is to protect its people. It's like Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, "For were the impulse of conscience clear, uniform and irresistably obeyed, man would need no other law-giver. That not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property for the protection of the rest...".

Granted, we are discussing more then just surrendering up property, but it is the same general idea. If we have a draft in place, it is to protect the homeland not the government. And the sacrifice is for the sake of the nation and its people.

[For Oklahoma]

@20RP12
In this thread you seem to treat gov't in a particular way. The gov't is a reflection of us, and it exists because we let it by our choice. Its primary purpose is to protect its people. It's like Thomas Paine said in Common Sense, "For were the impulse of conscience clear, uniform and irresistably obeyed, man would need no other law-giver. That not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property for the protection of the rest...".

Granted, we are discussing more then just surrendering up property, but it is the same general idea. If we have a draft in place, it is to protect the homeland not the government. And the sacrifice is for the sake of the nation and its people.

My assumption is that you're referring to my non-serious amendment about making Government officials serve first.

I see your point when you say "protecting the homeland, not the Government," but it's my view is that if the Government is too require its citizens to do something, that they should be subject to the same requirements that the citizens are subject to, ie conscription, if passed. It's ludicrous to say that we are to be subject from the requirements because we are the Government. I believe the draft is inherently evil and a terrible idea. Voluntary military service is the only military service I support.

So, essentially, while the amendment was a joke (or non-serious) it's the sentiment that was to be taken seriously. We are not above The People. If anything, we are below the people.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Should sitting members of congress be allowed to serve in the military? They were until 1942 when FDR put a stop to it.

[For Oklahoma]

Should sitting members of congress be allowed to serve in the military? They were until 1942 when FDR put a stop to it.

It's almost like saying "okay, we're going to make you buy a certain type of car, one that you may or may not like...but we, the Government officials that are forcing you to buy this car, are going to reserve the right to buy whatever car we please." It's hypocrisy. My point is, military service should be voluntary, period. I oppose war in really every situation, but if we're going to go to war, I guarantee you that there are plenty of Atlasians willing to fight for us. It's completely illogical to think that coercing our citizens into active military service is wrong. If you don't want to serve in the military voluntarily because you fear for your life, what makes you think forcing someone to serve will make them change their mind? We'll see service evasion and then what? We'll sentence our citizens to prison time because they evaded military service? That's ridiculous. If we're going to mandate something, we the Government should be as subject to said mandates as the citizens of Atlasia. Any other argument is total bs and I refuse to accept it. I will not budge on this.

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Damn, 20RP12, I wasn't trying to corrupt you with the forbidden fruit, I was merely asking if in the hypothetic situation arouse that we are at war, should members of congress be allowed to serve while being a sitting member?

[For Oklahoma]

Damn, 20RP12, I wasn't trying to corrupt you with the forbidden fruit, I was merely asking if in the hypothetic situation arouse that we are at war, should members of congress be allowed to serve while being a sitting member?

And my answer was yes. Granted, it was pro-longed and delayed, but nonetheless I answered.

[President Marokai]

Amendment #2 is dusted. Now Amendment #3!

We're now voting on the following, please vote aye, nay, or abstain:

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households. No conscripted solider will be compelled to serve in a front-line capacity.

[Junkie]

Nay

[For Oklahoma]

Nay.

[MOPolitico]

Nay

[Senator Napoleon]

Nay

[Secretary Polnut]

Yes... just let it die.

Nay.

[TJ in Wisco]

Nay

[President Marokai]

Aye, and this amendment is now failing. You're a picky bunch.

24 hours!

[Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I am going to re-offer the Polnut amendment without the last Sentence about frontline capacity.

Anti-Conscription Amendment

The Republic of Atlasia shall not conscript or enforce conscription of any citizen unless there is a land invasion of the Atlasian homeland by a sovereign government. In the event of such an attack, conscription must only be used on citizens at least eighteen years of age, and must allow exemptions for conscientious objectors, the infirm or otherwise disabled, those already enrolled in a higher education institution at the time conscription begins, or heads of single parent households.