Republicans, do you expect ANY gay people to vote for the Republican?

[asexual trans victimologist]

A lot of gay people don't think gay related issues are the most important ones with which America needs to deal right now.

They're still voting against their own (and other people's, let's not forget) rights for utilitarian reasons, which in my view is both morally and mentally questionable.

I'm not sure their understanding of utility is necessarily so distinct from their sense of morality.  Although it's hard for me to imagine how they can feel especially comfortable in a party so overtly committed to assuring their relationships are codified as inferior.  I think it's totally defensible, but yikes.

Oh, I totally understand how someone with a utilitarian viewpoint could end up making those decisions, but I am by nature very much a deontologist so it's somewhat off-putting to me, to say the least.

Most people are utilitarians for other people and deontologists for themselves. It's one of the most common, one could almost say near-universal human character flaws. People who are utilitarians for themselves, while I can intellectually admire their consistency, give me the willies.

I'm sure there are people who hold deontological justifications for conservative positions.  Surely you've met super-libertarian types.

Why do utilitarian people give you the willies?  Both are accepting first principles in the same way.

Not utilitarians exactly; people who are willing to sign away their own claims that easily unnerve me. As I said I don't view it as morally unsound within the context of a utilitarian position; it's just a little emotively jarring.

Of course there are deontological justifications for conservative positions but I was referring to utilitarianism in terms of signing out on recognition of rights issues that pertain to oneself and one's relationships and people like one so as to acquire tax cuts or whatever. Perhaps utilitarian/deontological isn't the right dichotomy to draw there but I can't at the moment think of a specific better one.

[Reluctant Republican]

Well, I'm a gay republican, though I'm not a very good one, given I'm likely to vote third party for president this time around.

Frankly, the issues that matter most to me(Non interventionist foreign policy, civil liberties)  line me up with Paul. I've been a  Republican in some form or another since before I even knew I was gay, and I think it would be a bit silly to leave the party and go to one I've never really found myself in agreement with over that.

I admit that the condescension bugs me. "How can you be a Republican and gay? That's like being  black and supporting of the KKK" is what some gay guy told me once. I just think it's highly condescending to lecture someone on what their interests are. Heck, maybe the gay in question is extremely religious, and the only issue that matters to them is ending abortion.  I think that's  a pretty dumb issue to vote on, but I don't think it makes them" less gay", or somehow a traitor to the cause. Besides, why don't LGBT's all vote for the Greens or one of the socialist parties then, since they've consistently called for equal rights while many Democrats remain hesitant?  I imagine the answer would be along the lines of pointing out that the Greens can't win, and that the election is really a choice between the Democrats and Republicans, both of which would enact vastly different policies towards the gay community. I can respect that, but I hope my decision to be  a Republican can be respected as well.

That being said, I have the privilege of being assumed as straight, and while I don't hide my sexuality, it's something that rarely comes up. I think it might be fair to say that I'm removed from the experiences of many gays, and am less affected by issues of say, gay bullying or harassment. Were these issues more present in my life, I imagine my views might be different.

[NY Jew]

The point is in state like New York, and others, the republicans are not as offensive and obsessed with gay rights as the many of the people running for the GOP on a national level. I can say that the state and local officials where I'm from are far to the left of Romney on gay issues, lets not even mention Santorum. For this reason, I have no problem as a gay person voting republican. I recently moved to Missouri, however and the story is completely different

the fact that people were concerned with fighting against marriage redefinition led to congressman Bob Turner, and will soon lead to State Senator David Storobin.

That's your specific part of New York. It's not representative.

Also, from what I've heard Storobin, uh, isn't exactly favored. Though I haven't actually heard all that much.

want to make a bet on Storobin.

Not really. As I said, I'm not terribly familiar with the race.

It remains that your district isn't really representative of other conservative areas of New York, though, partially since as I'm sure you recognize it's not conservative in the same ways or for the same reasons that places like a lot of rural upstate are.

I don't live anywhere near that district.

There are many areas down state that vote based on marriage both Jewish and Catholic.

There are also many otherwise Republican-leaning areas that aren't particularly conservative on this issue.

please name a few (down state only(I don't know enough about Up State to counter) ) areas that are Republican and pro gay marriage

[Torie]

A lot of gay people don't think gay related issues are the most important ones with which America needs to deal right now.

They're still voting against their own (and other people's, let's not forget) rights for utilitarian reasons, which in my view is both morally and mentally questionable.

No, they are sorting out which of the short comings of A versus B are less negative to the public square vis a vis others. If  for example, you think Obama's policies will lead to an economic US collapse akin to Greece over time, then perhaps whatever remains of the gay rights issue that will be put on hold  as part of a change of course is of lesser importance.

[Gustaf]

Wow, the condescension and bigotry of some people on here is a bit surprising.

I have a close gay friend who is VERY conservative. He always claimed that gay people, not having children, are a lot less dependent on the state and therefore more inclined to be economically conservative. I don't know how true that is but I think there might be something to it.

Also, I could imagine some gays simply might not be particularly interested in marriage. Again, from my gay friends I get the impression that there is a sizeable chunk of gays who don't care much for monogamous relationships in general. Since the GOP does not constitute a real threat to basic human rights in other areas, it might make sense for such people to vote Republican.

[Ogre Mage]

Wow, the condescension and bigotry of some people on here is a bit surprising.

I have a close gay friend who is VERY conservative. He always claimed that gay people, not having children, are a lot less dependent on the state and therefore more inclined to be economically conservative. I don't know how true that is but I think there might be something to it.

Also, I could imagine some gays simply might not be particularly interested in marriage. Again, from my gay friends I get the impression that there is a sizeable chunk of gays who don't care much for monogamous relationships in general. Since the GOP does not constitute a real threat to basic human rights in other areas, it might make sense for such people to vote Republican.

GOP opposition to LGBT goes far beyond just marriage. Many do not support any recognition of LGBT relationships including domestic partnerships.  Many do not support the rights of gays and lesbians to serve in the military or adopt children.  Many do not support including LGBT under any sort of anti-discrimination laws, so one could be fired or evicted for being gay.  Many do not support (positive) discussion of homosexuality in public sex ed classes -- a time when many young gay teens feel vulnerable.  When the U.S. Supreme Court declared sodomy laws unconstitutional in 2003, I heard some conservatives voice strong support for such laws -- Scalia was sadly not alone in his thinking.  

Some gays are obsessed with other political issues and/or are economically and socially insulated from the problems most gays face and they may not care at all about such things.  But they are in the minority.  There is a reason why Paul Babeu kept his sexuality under wraps all these years -- he knew the dynamics of his party as well as anyone.  After watching the rhetoric and positions of the GOP Presidential candidates this season (especially Rick Santorum) and watching the GOP Presidential debate audience boo a gay soldier serving in Iraq, one can see that the fact most LGBT do not support the GOP is not some big misunderstanding.

[Proud Lieberal from Northeast]

Incidentally, aren't you the same guy who claimed that Argentina never invaded the Falkland Islands?

Argentina did not invade Falklands. They just recaptured Malvinas. Get your fact straight, Joseph.

[Holmes]

There are plenty of gay people who vote Republican, they just happen to be the type of queer I have no desire to get to know.

Well, that's not close-minded at all....

Well, you don't understand gay culture and how homocons treat other gays, and vice-versa.

[Torie]

There are plenty of gay people who vote Republican, they just happen to be the type of queer I have no desire to get to know.

Well, that's not close-minded at all....

Well, you don't understand gay culture and how homocons treat other gays, and vice-versa.

How do homocons treat homolibs, and vice versa?  Are gays as a generalization less tolerant of other points of view, and demonize "the other" more?

[opebo]

A lot of gay people don't think gay related issues are the most important ones with which America needs to deal right now.

Well it certainly doesn't make sense to vote Republican if you're thinking in terms of 'larger issues' - the party which has destroyed the country for the benefit of 0.1% of the population is hardly the party of the broad, patriotic viewpoint.

[Torie]

A lot of gay people don't think gay related issues are the most important ones with which America needs to deal right now.

Well it certainly doesn't make sense to vote Republican if you're thinking in terms of 'larger issues' - the party which has destroyed the country for the benefit of 0.1% of the population is hardly the party of the broad, patriotic viewpoint.

Yes, gays who share your views on that opebo don't vote Pub. Who knew?

[Jbrase]

Wow, the condescension and bigotry of some people on here is a bit surprising.

This ^^^^^

[Ogre Mage]

Wow, the condescension and bigotry of some people on here is a bit surprising.

This ^^^^^

That is Gustaf's quote, not mine.

[ChairmanSanchez]

I expect Lindsay Graham to stay loyal to the party

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

This thread is so much epic fail.

But, yes, I know a few gay Republicans as well. Although, they are supporters of the Libertarian ideology.

And one of them is your typical "flamer" gays. Who is rather passionate on  promoting gay rights.

[crypto-fascist superhero]

This thread is so much epic fail.

But, yes, I know a few gay Republicans as well. Although, they are supporters of the Libertarian ideology.

And one of them is your typical "flamer" gays. Who is rather passionate on  promoting gay rights.

You wouldn't happen to know any lean-bi Republicans, would you?

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

This thread is so much epic fail.

But, yes, I know a few gay Republicans as well. Although, they are supporters of the Libertarian ideology.

And one of them is your typical "flamer" gays. Who is rather passionate on  promoting gay rights.

You wouldn't happen to know any lean-bi Republicans, would you?

No. I don't even know what the hell that means.

If you are implying that I am not straight then you are greatly mistaken. I'm confident enough in my straight sexuality to have supported the repeal of DADT, have gay/lesbian friends and support the Sheppard Act. Hell, one of my friends came out to me, and I reacted the best to it.

[opebo]

This thread is so much epic fail.

But, yes, I know a few gay Republicans as well. Although, they are supporters of the Libertarian ideology.

And one of them is your typical "flamer" gays. Who is rather passionate on  promoting gay rights.

You wouldn't happen to know any lean-bi Republicans, would you?

If you are implying that I am not straight then you are greatly mistaken.

I think he was just looking for dating advice.

[oakvale]

This thread is so much epic fail.

But, yes, I know a few gay Republicans as well. Although, they are supporters of the Libertarian ideology.

And one of them is your typical "flamer" gays. Who is rather passionate on  promoting gay rights.

You wouldn't happen to know any lean-bi Republicans, would you?

"Lean gay".

[milhouse24]

One day, gays will be able to share last names, share and buy property together, live together, get free health insurance, have children, adopt children, sign pre-nups and divorce each other.

[Joe Republic]

One day, gays will be able to share last names, share and buy property together, live together, get free health insurance, have children, adopt children, sign pre-nups and divorce each other.

Let's hope so.

[Progressive Realist]

One day, gays will be able to share last names, share and buy property together, live together, get free health insurance, have children, adopt children, sign pre-nups and divorce each other.

The HORROR!

[Χahar]

One day, gays will be able to share last names, share and buy property together, live together, get free health insurance, have children, adopt children, sign pre-nups and divorce each other.

I don't see anything about immigration here.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Some might vote Republican in New Hampshire, where a majority of the Republicans in the State Assembly voted to keep gay marriage. But in general, no.

[Purch]

I don't know why, but this reminds me of how many politicians seem to think that all Latino-american's care about are immigrations issues. To me it makes it seem like politicians feel that because immigration laws are major issues in their community, that they have no real ability to focus on fiscal issues or other social issues. Just because one issue might be key to a certain group of people doesn't mean that's the only thing on their agenda. Many gays probably prefer the republican economic philosophy over the democratic one and feel that having a stable economy in the future is more important than having certain rights if the result is a bankrupt country. Think about it... To them what's the point of having a gay marriage in a country in which your family can't have a stable economy (Which I assume they believe if their republicans again I'm just trying to say it from what I believe their point of view is so please don't flame me). I kinda like the idea of gay republicans because it shows that Americans are starting to break out of this "Single issue voter" mentality.