Protesters rally over Florida teen's death, demand arrest

[Gravis Marketing]

ABC agents are police officers.

Police officers may enforce liquor laws, and ABC agents may have law enforcement powers.

They probably aren't in uniform.

ABC agents are police officers. Google it.

[jimrtex]

ABC agents are police officers.

Police officers may enforce liquor laws, and ABC agents may have law enforcement powers.

They probably aren't in uniform.

ABC agents are police officers. Google it.

Law enforcement officers.  Not police officers.

If you were trying to see if a bar was serving persons who were intoxicated or serving underage drinking, you aren't going to be wearing a uniform.

[Ogre Mage]

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

[Wrecking Ball and Chain]

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Well it's tough to identify anyone else who it could be so...

[wormyguy]

Just as an FYI, "voice identification" is about the most pseudoscientific discipline imaginable - it's not even admissible in court (which is saying something, because all sorts of pseudoscientific "forensic" methods are).

[BigSkyBob]

Two forensic voice identification experts say the cries for help on the 911 tape are NOT George Zimmerman's.

They are not able to definitely say the voice was Trayvon Martin's because they do not have a good sample of his voice.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

Actually, isn't the correct formulation to say that they couldn't make any determination whatsoever as to whether, or not, it was Martin's voice because they simply didn't have a sample?

As to analyzing their "science" two points come quickly to mind. First, they don't say what the expected pattern match is if samples from two different people are compared. If it is 10%, that strongly points to Zimmerman being the speaker. Second, the assumption that someone reporting a suspicious person from the safety of their car, knowing they are armed, constitutes the intense "stress" someone being beaten would exhibit in their voice is a highly dubious assumption, at best.

We know that Zimmerman's neighbor, whom has spoken to Zimmerman on numerous occasions, identified his voice from the 911 tapes.

[Invisible Obama]

It was hard to believe it was Zimmerman, it sounded like someone younger and the older a man is, the less likely he is to reach certain octaves and decibels. Of course they can't claim it's Martin's voice without a sample, but that doesn't change the fact that their analysis did not match Zimmerman's voice. There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.

[J. J.]

There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.

I definitely agree.  There are a whole bunch of questions.

[Harry]

Defenders of Zimmerman are looking more and more foolish every day...

[jimrtex]

It was hard to believe it was Zimmerman, it sounded like someone younger and the older a man is, the less likely he is to reach certain octaves and decibels. Of course they can't claim it's Martin's voice without a sample, but that doesn't change the fact that their analysis did not match Zimmerman's voice. There are big holes in this case and it really needs to be investigated properly.

The call has 45 seconds before the gunshot.   So there must have been some (10 seconds) before that for the caller to react, and decide to call 911.

What would cause someone to scream for help?

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

[BigSkyBob]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

[jimrtex]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

If you were being chased by a guy with a gun, would you run?

In 45 seconds, assuming a 6'3 17 YO can run a 15 second 100 yard dash, he could have reached the place where he was staying AND returned.

I really don't think the 5'9 guy was chasing after 6'3 guy for 45 seconds until he finally caught up with and fired at short range.

[jimrtex]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?

[jimrtex]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?

He did not get out of his truck when the police told him not to pursue.

He got out of his truck when Martin began running.  If Martin ran down the street, it is more likely that Zimmerman would have simply driven around the corner.  So it is more likely that Martin ran along the path behind the townhouses, or perhaps even over on the next street.  Zimmerman reacted and got out of his truck.  It was then that the dispatcher told him not to follow.  Zimmerman acknowledged, and said that "He ran", which implies that he was no longer in sight.

[BigSkyBob]

What would cause someone to scream for help?

Being chased by a guy with a gun?

And, your theory is that a young man running away from a heavier older man screaming "Help" at the top of his lungs decided to stop and turn around so he could be shot in the chest? Persons whom opt for "flight" rather than "fight" tend to keep running.

Ok then, being shoved to the ground by a guy with a gun who had been creepily following you around - happy now?

Why would Zimmerman shove him to the ground?

Why would he get out of his car to look for him when the police told him not to pursue?

He did not get out of his truck when the police told him not to pursue.

He got out of his truck when Martin began running.  If Martin ran down the street, it is more likely that Zimmerman would have simply driven around the corner.  So it is more likely that Martin ran along the path behind the townhouses, or perhaps even over on the next street.  Zimmerman reacted and got out of his truck.  It was then that the dispatcher told him not to follow.  Zimmerman acknowledged, and said that "He ran", which implies that he was no longer in sight.

And, if Zimmerman had ran after him, you would have heard his heavy breathing on the call.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

And, if Zimmerman had ran after him, you would have heard his heavy breathing on the call.

Pursuit does not necessarily have to involved running. He could have just continued looking around the area. Either that or he stuck around the area to wait for the police without heading back to his vehicle... at night, in the rain. Which considering he believed that there was a suspicious and potentially dangerous person around would be just about as stupid as pursuing. And if Martin ran and Zimmerman did not continue to pursue, what opportunity would Martin have to initiate the altercation? Are you saying that after running that he turned around and decided to pick a fight then? Seems like contradictory behavior to me.

[jimrtex]

Pursuit does not necessarily have to involved running. He could have just continued looking around the area. Either that or he stuck around the area to wait for the police without heading back to his vehicle... at night, in the rain. Which considering he believed that there was a suspicious and potentially dangerous person around would be just about as stupid as pursuing. And if Martin ran and Zimmerman did not continue to pursue, what opportunity would Martin have to initiate the altercation? Are you saying that after running that he turned around and decided to pick a fight then? Seems like contradictory behavior to me.

There are about 4-1/2 minutes from the time Zimmerman reported that Martin had run toward the back entrance until the fighting apparently began.

At a fast walk (15 minutes/mile) he could have got home (to where he was staying), returned, gone home, and come back a second time.

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.

[IDS Judicial Overlord John Dibble]

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.

1. Because as neighborhood watch captain you would think he'd know the streets of his own neighborhood.
2. Because he thinks there's a suspicious, potentially dangerous person around. Why not go to the safety of his vehicle to get some shelter from the rain?

[jimrtex]

Zimmerman had told the dispatcher to have the police officer call him when he got to the complex.   Why would he go back to his truck?  It makes more sense to find the street address so he could tell the cop.

1. Because as neighborhood watch captain you would think he'd know the streets of his own neighborhood.
2. Because he thinks there's a suspicious, potentially dangerous person around. Why not go to the safety of his vehicle to get some shelter from the rain?

But not necessarily the address, especially if he wasn't in his truck and the truck was not in front of a residence.  It is almost continuous driveway in front of any building, so you would be blocking a driveway.  He started to tell the dispatcher that the officer would see his truck.  The dispatcher asked the address, and then started questioning whether he lived in the area, as if to possibly suggest that the police officer meet him at his house.

The dispatcher then asked him if he wanted to meet at the mailboxes, which is not where he was, nor where his truck was.  He realized that, and then decided to have the police officer come to him.   The dispatcher is probably trained to get something that can be keyed into their mapping system so it will show up on the police officer's screen.

How hard was the rain?  You had people walking their dogs, so it may have let up a bit.

[I Can't Get That Sound You Make, Out Of My Head]

I can't believe that some ****wits on here can justify Zimmerman's decision to murder!

He used a gun ffs! I could maybe understand it if he used some other weapon which killed him, but a gun is too far! Surely he knew that a gun can easily kill! It wasn't like the kid was that dangerous anyway. The people that say they are either don't know how kids communicate today, or are on the same level as a HP as Mr Zimmerman.

I don't know how American law works, but in Australia, while self-defence can obviously play a factor, it's not a full defence to murder, and you have to use reasonable force. So I reckon he could be busted with murder. And he deserves it, too.

[Grumps]

The whole story is so uninteresting to me I can't read any of it.......I think it was memphis who noted that there's no hubub elsewhere when black kids get killed daily in the U.S.

I'm sorry for the family.....and every other family who doesn't merit national attention.

[jimrtex]

He used a gun ffs! I could maybe understand it if he used some other weapon which killed him, but a gun is too far! Surely he knew that a gun can easily kill! It wasn't like the kid was that dangerous anyway. The people that say they are either don't know how kids communicate today, or are on the same level as a HP as Mr Zimmerman.

What do you mean "how kids communicate today"?