Are you serious Inks?

[Paul Kemp]

Crossposted:

I suppose programs such as "The Daily Show" or "The Colbert Report" should be taken off television since they show people routinely saying dumb or ignorant things (well-known people at that). Even thought I think Jay Leno blows, it looks like the "Jaywalking" segment would have to come to an end as well.  Also, the "Sideshow" section of "Hardball" that appears every night.

We can't risk offending people!

[So the Heroes Fall]

If you look back at the threads from around 2004 or so, there are many 'personal attacks' and stuff that would receive infractions today. And yet pretty much every one of our veterans agrees that the quality of discussion was better back then.

One has to consider now if classic forum traditions like use of words like "poors" and "dumbs" and Freedom Fighter vs. Horrible Person would be infracted as "trolling" if they started today.

Agree about the HP thing, with which I was never comfortable when it pertains to a poster (as opposed to a public figure), but what on earth is remotely offensive about opebo's charmingly incorrect grammar?

Some people have complained in the past that "poors" sounds condescending. I could also ask about what's remotely offensive about asking if you capitalize opebo's name too, but apparently something is becuase I was deleted and infracted for that.

[I'm JewCon in name only.]

Look guys, Lately I have not agreed with ANY of the moderation techniques that Inks has been using and I honestly do think he should be removed as a mod, but you guys are now resulting to personal attacks against him.


Like that picture of that nerd and stuff. Attack his lack of good judgement, and over zealous moderation not him personally. Because Inks seems like someone who one could have a good time with, or hold an intelligent conversation with.

That is all

[Gustaf]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

And quoting a post in that thread was merely an expression that you believe what a person said is absurd- not bullying, in any way.

That's not how it was used. In fact, people used to sometimes put up posts in the comedy goldmines that didn't actually belong there. The Deluge was made for those posts. I never considered it to be a good thing.

It was a way of pointing at someone and going "haha, look at this moron"

And it tended to be used by people to score points against their personal or political enemies instead of actually engaging in discussion.

And based on the few interventions Dave has made historically, his standards for tone and conduct are way, way beyond what anyone here can imagine.

There is also a difference between good-natured fun and mean-spirited bullying. There has been way too much of the latter on here.

[Senator Kalwejt]

There's one question still waiting for an answer:

Since deluge thread was appearently fine for months, why to lock is now without an appearent reason?

[Gustaf]

There's one question still waiting for an answer:

Since deluge thread was appearently fine for months, why to lock is now without an appearent reason?

Have you even bothered to read what has been said?

I guess I will have to repeat it:

1. It hasn't been fine for months - it's been discussed for some time and been considered a problem.

2. Inks explicitly said he had to delete a lot of stuff in it because it got completely out of hand and that's what tipped the scale, the straw that broke the camel's back and what have you.

I'm not saying either of those necessarily concludes the argument or anything, but still.

[Governor Scott]

Another option, a more "moderate" one , might have been just to cull those posts deemed beyond the pale, rather than freeze the thread sinking it into oblivion. But that can get labor intensive. But in the end, part of the job of being a mod is being a good politician.  One just cannot wholly escape that.

The whole idea of the thread was one of ultimately insulting other people, something that opebo and others really brought to my attention and convinced me of over recent months on The Atlas board.

Plus, that thread had too many problems, and when you have to delete over a page of crap - it's time for the thread to just be put to rest.

How are we better off with a forum that respects stupidity?

Stupidity is subjective. And the forum is supposed to encourage a civil atmosphere, not bullying.

And quoting a post in that thread was merely an expression that you believe what a person said is absurd- not bullying, in any way.

That's not how it was used. In fact, people used to sometimes put up posts in the comedy goldmines that didn't actually belong there. The Deluge was made for those posts. I never considered it to be a good thing.

It was a way of pointing at someone and going "haha, look at this moron"

And it tended to be used by people to score points against their personal or political enemies instead of actually engaging in discussion.

And based on the few interventions Dave has made historically, his standards for tone and conduct are way, way beyond what anyone here can imagine.

There is also a difference between good-natured fun and mean-spirited bullying. There has been way too much of the latter on here.

Quoting a post is not bullying; this is why I think the terms "personal attack" and "bullying" are stretched way too far here.  If I were to quote a person directly and say, "You're a moron.  Go f**k yourself and shove your ridiculous opinion up your ass," then I see how that could be construed as bullying.  But members of this forum (who are actually required to say they meet a certain age requirement before joining, if I remember correctly) are generally mature enough to handle seeing one of their posts in a thread like that.  And even if something as harmless as that is too bothersome, they don't have to look at the thread at all if they wish.  And speaking just from personal experience, I have had a post of mine put in that thread before by someone who I generally get along with here; they did not do it as a way of engaging in "mean-spirited bullying."

[Gustaf]

I don't think I claimed that every post there was. But it very often was. It's bullying because of the pile-on effect. And because you're not allowed to defend yourself in threads like that. (If you do you will be met by comments such as "good thing you're posting directly into this thread now, haha")

You don't think telling a poster that he should post directly into a thread devoted to bad and stupid posts constitutes bullying or a personal attack? Because I do.

It's basically a thread devoted to public shaming. Look at this guy and his idiocy. It's not mature and it encourages a poor attitude to other posters.

[Governor Scott]

I don't think I claimed that every post there was. But it very often was. It's bullying because of the pile-on effect. And because you're not allowed to defend yourself in threads like that. (If you do you will be met by comments such as "good thing you're posting directly into this thread now, haha")

You don't think telling a poster that he should post directly into a thread devoted to bad and stupid posts constitutes bullying or a personal attack? Because I do.

It's basically a thread devoted to public shaming. Look at this guy and his idiocy. It's not mature and it encourages a poor attitude to other posters.

Well, frankly, you don't have to defend yourself in Deluge thread itself; you can do it in the thread that the post was made in.  Personal attacks have occurred on this board, but I don't see why that means an entire thread has to be locked, especially since most of these cases involved trolls simply getting a reaction for the things they say.  If a certain user persistently attacks another user personally, they should be dealt with on an individual basis.

It was a thread devoted to public expression of disagreement, not very different in the way that FF/HP threads are devoted to public expression of approval/disapproval of a certain user.  Now, I'm not saying that FF/HP threads should be banned, too- as that would be equally ridiculous- but they both serve the same purpose.  As this is a political board, such should be expected.  People who don't like the way others respond to their comments have the option to ignore posts a certain user makes, not read threads like the Deluge, or simply log off.

[asexual trans victimologist]

A mistake, Nathan.

...eh? I haven't posted in this thread...

[So the Heroes Fall]

Gustaf engages in the type of "bullying" he's decrying here against me and opebo all the time.

[Χahar]

Given Gustaf's habitual extreme condescension, it's rather odd that he's complaining.

[Jayhawker]

I've always been supportive of you, Inks, but this was not a good decision.

Boo!

[Insula Dei]

A mistake, Nathan.

...eh? I haven't posted in this thread...

Inks' real name is Nathan.

[Grumps]

A mistake, Nathan.

...eh? I haven't posted in this thread...

That's the second time you've done that.........INKS' name is Nathan........now stop

[asexual trans victimologist]

A mistake, Nathan.

...eh? I haven't posted in this thread...

That's the second time you've done that.........INKS' name is Nathan........now stop

I wasn't aware of that. No need to be a jerk about it.

[Cathcon]

Yeah Gramps. The guy's username is friggin' Nathan!

[Grumps]

Yeah Gramps. The guy's username is friggin' Nathan!

I'll be more clear about it in the future

[Senator Kalwejt]

Yeah Gramps. The guy's username is friggin' Nathan!

I'll be more clear about it in the future

Resign!

[Lief]

It's become clear in the past 24 hours that Inks has lost the confidence of the majority of active posters here. He should resign immediately before this situation escalates.

[Governor Scott]

I'm just going to say, I have a strong feeling that posts that would normally be posted in the Deluge are just going to get posted in the Institute.  If that thread gets locked as well, I will abstain from posting in either the Forum Community or Off-topic forums.  I encourage others to do the same.

[Senator Napoleon]

Inks is a joke mod. If only there were humor involved.

[True Federalist]

If you look back at the threads from around 2004 or so, there are many 'personal attacks' and stuff that would receive infractions today. And yet pretty much every one of our veterans agrees that the quality of discussion was better back then.

One has to consider now if classic forum traditions like use of words like "poors" and "dumbs" and Freedom Fighter vs. Horrible Person would be infracted as "trolling" if they started today.

Agree about the HP thing, with which I was never comfortable when it pertains to a poster (as opposed to a public figure), but what on earth is remotely offensive about opebo's charmingly incorrect grammar?

Who said it was incorrect?  Besides, we moderators have enough to do without becoming grammar Nazis.

[Gustaf]

Given Gustaf's habitual extreme condescension, it's rather odd that he's complaining.

You, of all people, are accusing me of extreme condescension? And people used to think you had no sense of humour.

1. I never claimed to be perfect. I'm sure I made mistakes in my posting.

2. I do know that I generally avoid posting "haha" posts making fun of other posters or starting threads devoted to attacking them. To me there has always been a big difference between things said in the heat of an argument within a thread on some topic and going out of one's way to attack someone.

3. People who are rude, mean and offensive lose my respect. I won't tip-toe around posters who are complete jerks. Most of my "condescension" comes out against people who are being condescending themselves while at the same time having no idea what they're talking about. I have not acted condescendingly towards people who are merely a bit daft (which is something a lot of posters on here engage in and is what is problematic).

4. I think personal attacks should generally be backed up by evidence (I try to do that myself). So, Xahar give me some examples of this habitual, extreme condescension.

[Senator Snowstalker]

I know that the self-admitted lazy (see Inks's explanation for locking the thread) and fascist mods will take this down, but it's time for me to make a sacrifice for Team Freedom.

I made a new Deluge topic which immediately gave me 10 infraction points. The justification was "other reason".