Kennedy / Johnson vs. Goldwater / Rockefeller 64

[Jerseyrules]

So lets say Barry still wins the nomination, JFK doesn't get assassinated.  Barry picks Winthrop Rockefeller (or maybe even Margret Chase Smith) as his running mate in 64, and is endorsed by prominent Rockefeller Republicans, including Romney and Rocky.  Who wins?

[ask_not]

j.f.k get"s it but having smith as a running mate. cause the ticket to become a historical footnote. .rockefeller said he wanted to glean the g.o.p of extremist and i believe he meant goldwater.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Probably JFK but I would've voted for a Goldwater/Rockefeller ticket in a heartbeat!  Awesome idea!!!

[CathKhan]

Probably JFK but I would've voted for a Goldwater/Rockefeller ticket in a heartbeat!  Awesome idea!!!

Awful idea. We can't let one of those people onto the ticket. Especially the brother who's only been a gubernatorial candidate, nominated only a few months ago.

[Odysseus]

Yes, Nelson Rockefeller on a ticket with Barry Goldwater, whom he denounced as an extremist at the actual 1964 convention. Seems legit.

[RogueBeaver]

First of all, Goldwater/Rocky ain't happening in anything remotely resembling RL '64. Second, JFK/LBJ wins a massive landslide slightly smaller than LBJ's IRL.

[GPORTER]

Does Kennedy get civil rights through the congress? Whats his approval rating nationally?

[RogueBeaver]

Does Kennedy get civil rights through the congress? Whats his approval rating nationally?

Yes, just in 1965 instead of 1964. The last Gallup before Dallas pegged him in the low 60s.

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Yes, Nelson Rockefeller on a ticket with Barry Goldwater, whom he denounced as an extremist at the actual 1964 convention. Seems legit.

He meant Winthrop Rockefeller, but I think Nelson Rockefeller would have been a better choice.

[Jerseyrules]

Maybe Winthrop wins in 62, then is picked by Barry because he doesn't want Nelson on the ticket?  Or maybe he picks George Romney or Margret Chase-Smith?  I'm thinking he carries the south and Midwest, holds ME and VT, maybe NH.  With Nixon campaigning a bit more aggressively, I think he could even win OH.  I'm not saying it would be a victory, but couldn't it reduce JFK's victory to about Obama's victory in 08?

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Here's my map: Kennedy picks up a few states he lost to Nixon in 1960 (Florida, Kentucky, Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia, Washington), but Goldwater's choice of Winthrop Rockefeller prevents a Kennedy landslide and helps him hold on to many of the Nixon states from 1960.

Kennedy/Johnson (D)- 390
Goldwater/Rockefeller (R)- 148

[Jerseyrules]

I see something more like this:



TX, OH, IL, or PA would've flipped the election to Goldwater, who would have a monopoly on the South with the exception of TX for oblivious reasons.  This is after JFK doesn't have the political capital to pass Medicare after Civil Rights legislation and tax cuts.  He wasn't the forceful personality Johnson was, and arguably many of these things only got passed with the outpouring of sympathy after Dallas.

[CathKhan]

But why Winthrop Rockefeller? The man had only just been nominated for Governor earlier that year.

[tb78]

A landslide for Kennedy/Johnson. Kennedy in this case as the OP described him was still popular around the country despite angering the south over civil rights, and I doubt Goldwater would have gave him a significant challenge. The Goldwater/Rockefeller ticket would have never happened in RL, and I bet in this case something really interesting would have happened.

[Jerseyrules]

But why Winthrop Rockefeller? The man had only just been nominated for Governor earlier that year.

He's a Rockefeller without being Nelson.  He's all the advantages of having Nelson on the ticket (name recognition, uniting the party, getting Rocky's endorsement, etc.) without having to deal with Nelson personally (who Goldwater detested)

[Oldiesfreak1854]

Kennedy really wasn't much of a civil rights supporter.  Both he and Johnson voted against the 1957 Civil Rights Act and only proposed civil rights legislation when civil rights demonstrations began to cause a drop in his job approval.  Johnson did the same thing.  In fact, during the March on Washington, Kennedy expressed concerns that the marchers would "sh*t" on the Washington Monument. (Wrong on Race: The Democratic Party's Buried Past) 

[ask_not]

goldwater would still ose but winwinthrope rockefellers home state