Israel-Gaza war

[Devils30]

How far are we from the Final Solution to the Palestinian Question?

The Israelis won't be exterminating the Palestinians and any peace deal seems far off. But given your antisemitism, I am not shocked you use this kind of language.

[GeneralMacArthur]

Again, I will keep saying this, if Israel actually wanted to commit genocide against the Palestinians they would have just obliterated the entire Gaza Strip.  They would also probably have used 10/7 as a pretext to invade the West Bank (claiming Hamas was there as well) and do likewise, and they would also have rounded up and exterminated the Arabs who are currently Israeli citizens.

They haven't done anything close to any of this.  There has been zero action against Arab Israelis, there has been no significant military activity in the West Bank, and the war has now dragged on for nearly three months with Palestinian casualties only numbering in the 10-20,000 range -- and we have no idea what the military:civilian ratio is there, since the Gaza Health Ministry (Hamas) just claims that everyone who died was a civilian.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Is it me or is Israel’s actual on the ground progress kinda lackluster considering how long and the amount they have been bombarding Gaza?

Honestly, not really - close-quarters urban combat is a nightmare, as both sides can testify from Russia/Ukraine. Israel's ground invasion has been fairly cautious, and it's paid off in relatively modest losses of soldiers compared to what a war like this usually looks like. Thus, they're making slower but consistent progress - they're certainly not being pushed back anywhere, and they already occupy around half the strip. There's also the issue that successfully occupying the strip won't end the conflict due to Hamas' guerilla tactics, so I think they might be less concerned about land gains than about methodically eliminating the threat in the areas they already possess.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

[Horus]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

Tim Kaine is one of the most moderate Dems in the Senate and like Mark Warner is heavy on NatSec. Don't you think it's rather alarming that someone that milquetoast and establishment is calling out Biden? You seem to be ignoring the heart of the matter, trying to distract from how radical Biden is here by focusing on how jfern phrased his post.

[Stand With Israel. Crush Hamas]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

Tim Kaine is one of the most moderate Dems in the Senate and like Mark Warner is heavy on NatSec. Don't you think it's rather alarming that someone that milquetoast and establishment is calling out Biden? You seem to be ignoring the heart of the matter, trying to distract from how radical Biden is here by focusing on how jfern phrased his post.

Biden has the legal right to transfer arms to our ally, has the moral obligation to do so, and has the strategic obligation to do so to ensure Israel isn't forced to resort to more desperate tactics, so no, I don't really care what a has-been has to say. Kaine also hasn't been notably moderate for a while, compared to Warner, and he's known to have a son who's a radical.

[Meclazine for Israel]

To highlight the barbaric scale of destruction in Gaza, nearly 70% of all homes there are either destroyed or damaged. Yes, 70%.

Let's be clear about what is happening.

Hamas chose to invade Israel for the distinct purpose of........the kidnap, murder, rape, beheading and burning of families including women and children.

Choose your action. Choose your consequences.

[Comrade Funk]

To highlight the barbaric scale of destruction in Gaza, nearly 70% of all homes there are either destroyed or damaged. Yes, 70%.

Let's be clear about what is happening.

Hamas chose to invade Israel for the distinct purpose of........the kidnap, murder, rape, beheading and burning of families including women and children.

Choose your action. Choose your consequences.

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

[pppolitics]

Senior officials from Netanyahu’s right-wing government keep saying the quiet part out loud.

https://twitter.com/MairavZ/status/1741378636278575166

[Reactionary Libertarian]

To highlight the barbaric scale of destruction in Gaza, nearly 70% of all homes there are either destroyed or damaged. Yes, 70%.

Let's be clear about what is happening.

Hamas chose to invade Israel for the distinct purpose of........the kidnap, murder, rape, beheading and burning of families including women and children.

Choose your action. Choose your consequences.

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

This is the most disgusting and open lie pushed by the pro-Palestine faction: that Palestine has no choice but to respond to "the occupation" with terror and radical Islam. In reality, the occupation exists because Palestine keeps choosing terror. In reality, peoples all over the world have dealt with land losses and population transfers, and have not responded by electing terrorists, teaching their children to be martyrs, and starting suicidal wars over and over again. Palestinian culture is deeply sick, and is egged on by the rest of the world and the UN, who affirm the lie that "they have no choice".

[Silent Hunter]

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

You can acknowledge it and still utterly condemn the actions of Hamas.

[Comrade Funk]

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

You can acknowledge it and still utterly condemn the actions of Hamas.

Unfortunately, most people on here seem unable to do blame Israel for anything.

[Coldstream]

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

You can acknowledge it and still utterly condemn the actions of Hamas.

Unfortunately, most people on here seem unable to do blame Israel for anything.

It’s the inevitable reaction of anti-Israel hysteria. When Israel gets blamed for everything, consistently, for years on end. Even when Hamas attacks, rapes and murders civilians, people find a way to say the Israelis deserved it, eventually some people are just going to dismiss all criticism of Israel as bad faith.

Personally I think this is an argument people get the wrong way round: legitimate criticism of Israel is dismissed as anti-semitism *because* there’s usually so much bad faith anti-Semitic criticism that people just disregard it. Rather than pro-Israel people actively pretending something is anti-Semitic.

The Palestinians are the ones who suffer every time people lie about Israel, because it makes it easier for Israeli hardliners to look justified/reasonable etc

[patzer]

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

Palestine is a synonym for the whole land of Israel which is home to several native groups including people who identify as Israelis and people who identify as Palestinians. Claiming that Israel occupies Palestine is like claiming Israel occupies Canaan or that Spain occupies Iberia, it makes no sense. Yes, Israel exists in a region that is also known as Palestine. That is not an occupation.

There is no internationally-well-recognized independent state called "Palestine" and nor has there ever been- in 1967 (which is what I presume you are referring to by "50+ years" ago) Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt respectively, but those places dropped their claims so you can't even say Israel is occupying Jordan/Egypt.

[Comrade Funk]

Do you just ever like...acknowledge the 50+ years of occupation, colonization, and economic repression of Palestine or do you just not care?

Palestine is a synonym for the whole land of Israel which is home to several native groups including people who identify as Israelis and people who identify as Palestinians. Claiming that Israel occupies Palestine is like claiming Israel occupies Canaan or that Spain occupies Iberia, it makes no sense. Yes, Israel exists in a region that is also known as Palestine. That is not an occupation.

There is no internationally-well-recognized independent state called "Palestine" and nor has there ever been- in 1967 (which is what I presume you are referring to by "50+ years" ago) Israel took control of the West Bank and Gaza Strip from Jordan and Egypt respectively, but those places dropped their claims so you can't even say Israel is occupying Jordan/Egypt.

This is such a bad faith arguement. Going by your philosophy, there's no such thing as a "Taiwan" and the PRC should have free reign to take over. No oppressed people are allowed to form their own government because welp....shoulda had a country already! Regardless, even if we buy that Israel isn't occupying the West Bank, they are denying basic civil/political rights of the Palestinian Arabs who live there. One ethnic group is prioritized over the other and again, for some reason, many on here seem to be fine with that.

[patzer]

This is such a bad faith arguement. Going by your philosophy, there's no such thing as a "Taiwan" and the PRC should have free reign to take over. No oppressed people are allowed to form their own government because welp....shoulda had a country already! Regardless, even if we buy that Israel isn't occupying the West Bank, they are denying basic civil/political rights of the Palestinian Arabs who live there. One ethnic group is prioritized over the other and again, for some reason, most on here seem to be fine with that.

"Palestine" is not the West Bank. The extent of the geographic region of Palestine also covers all of Israel, and in fact Palestinians who are Israeli citizens (of whom there are millions) have full civil rights in Israel. I do agree there should be an easier pathway for Palestinians living in the West Bank to gain Israeli citizenship in the event of Israel deciding to retain long-term control of the region, though.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

This is such a bad faith arguement. Going by your philosophy, there's no such thing as a "Taiwan" and the PRC should have free reign to take over. No oppressed people are allowed to form their own government because welp....shoulda had a country already! Regardless, even if we buy that Israel isn't occupying the West Bank, they are denying basic civil/political rights of the Palestinian Arabs who live there. One ethnic group is prioritized over the other and again, for some reason, most on here seem to be fine with that.

"Palestine" is not the West Bank. The extent of the geographic region of Palestine also covers all of Israel, and in fact Palestinians who are Israeli citizens (of whom there are millions) have full civil rights in Israel. I do agree there should be an easier pathway for Palestinians living in the West Bank to gain Israeli citizenship in the event of Israel deciding to retain long-term control of the region, though.

Oh, well, as long as there’s an “easier” pathway. If Israel is going to control the West Bank, why not just make the people who live there citizens? If Israel doesn’t want to accept them as citizens, why should it be allowed to control the WB?

[pppolitics]

This is such a bad faith arguement. Going by your philosophy, there's no such thing as a "Taiwan" and the PRC should have free reign to take over. No oppressed people are allowed to form their own government because welp....shoulda had a country already! Regardless, even if we buy that Israel isn't occupying the West Bank, they are denying basic civil/political rights of the Palestinian Arabs who live there. One ethnic group is prioritized over the other and again, for some reason, most on here seem to be fine with that.

"Palestine" is not the West Bank. The extent of the geographic region of Palestine also covers all of Israel, and in fact Palestinians who are Israeli citizens (of whom there are millions) have full civil rights in Israel. I do agree there should be an easier pathway for Palestinians living in the West Bank to gain Israeli citizenship in the event of Israel deciding to retain long-term control of the region, though.

Oh, well, as long as there’s an “easier” pathway. If Israel is going to control the West Bank, why not just make the people who live there citizens? If Israel doesn’t want to accept them as citizens, why should it be allowed to control the WB?

...because they would be able to vote

[patzer]

Oh, well, as long as there’s an “easier” pathway. If Israel is going to control the West Bank, why not just make the people who live there citizens? If Israel doesn’t want to accept them as citizens, why should it be allowed to control the WB?

Well, legally the West Bank is still under military control rather than incorporated into Israel. Probably thanks to international pressure stopping them from proceeding with direct incorporation for now, but it really needs to happen rather than leaving the West Bank in a state of perpetual territorial ambiguity which it has been in for a long time.

[kwabbit]

If 70% of the Gaza’s buildings have been destroyed or damaged during the bombing, doesn’t that put into question Israel’s tactics? The policy of only bombing civilian buildings if they housed Hamas personnel/equipment/HQs makes sense at first, but if they are knocking first and the Hamas members are able to leave too then it seems pretty pointless. They might be making some additional military progress at the cost of many Palestinian civilian lives and PR with the rest of the world.

[Meclazine for Israel]

First Australian killed fighting for Israel in Gaza, Lior Sivan, a 32 y.o. mechanical engineer.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-02/australian-serving-with-israeli-army-killed-inside-gaza/103277994


Lior Sivan was called up to fight for the IDF after the Hamas attack on October 7.(Supplied)

R.I.P. Lior.

[GoTfan]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

Well, it certainly foes seem like a number of people on here are pro-Likud, despite them constantly saying they are not.

[Horus]

Imagine being so pro Likud that Tim Kaine has to call you out.

https://twitter.com/GuardianUS/status/1741212099618152918

If being pro-Israel automatically means you’re pro-Likud, does being pro-Palestinian automatically mean you’re pro-Hamas?  I disagree on both counts, but if we follow your line of reasoning, then the latter would seem to logically follow.

Well, it certainly foes seem like a number of people on here are pro-Likud, despite them constantly saying they are not.

Moreso that there's little difference between Likud and the establishment center right bloc (Yesh Atid, National Unity) when it comes to Gaza. The primary differences are over settlements. Even center/center left Meretz is quite hawkish.

[patzer]

Well, it certainly foes seem like a number of people on here are pro-Likud, despite them constantly saying they are not.

Moreso that there's little difference between Likud and the establishment center right bloc (Yesh Atid, National Unity) when it comes to Gaza. The primary differences are over settlements. Even center/center left Meretz is quite hawkish.

Well yes, nobody relevant in Israel is going to take the position that you should just stop fighting against Hamas. Israelis are very united in wanting Hamas gone- after all, Hamas killed Jews indiscriminately including killing left-wing peace activists like Vivian Silver.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Oh, well, as long as there’s an “easier” pathway. If Israel is going to control the West Bank, why not just make the people who live there citizens? If Israel doesn’t want to accept them as citizens, why should it be allowed to control the WB?

Well, legally the West Bank is still under military control rather than incorporated into Israel. Probably thanks to international pressure stopping them from proceeding with direct incorporation for now, but it really needs to happen rather than leaving the West Bank in a state of perpetual territorial ambiguity which it has been in for a long time.

Well, yes, but a military occupation where the occupier allows its citizens to live and establish communities there is more akin to a European-style colonialist project than anything else (somewhat darkly in keeping with the original Zionist aspiration for a Jewish nation-state Just Like The Rest Of Europe Has Got).