Ireland General Discussion

[Hashemite]

I'm happy to see FG 2% from FF, and I'm quite happy to see the "Green" Party stagnating at more or less election levels !

[Јas]

Surely the ongoing (and indeed past) changes in media is evidence that it is undergoing a constant process of change and experimentation.

Sort of. But you make it out to be some sort of concious decision making rather than something which actually shapes how people think and thus how they make decisions.

I don't think these are entirely mutually exclusive decisions. Yes, exposure to particular forms of media informs particular modes of thinking - but also, people are free to choose from a very wide range of media which inform opinions in very different ways. I think that people's choice of media is (to a large extent) a conscious decision and that these decisions, en masse, inform the evolving media market.

[Јas]

As I was bored I decided to use a uniform swing to see what would happen in Dublin south (which hopefully will have nothing to do with by 2012) by those results using 2007 as a basis and amusing the same candidates:

Are we to take it that you've been so enamoured with Maynooth, that a full time move to Kildare North is imminant?

FF 32.6
FG 31
LAB 15.3
GP 11.4
PD 5.9
SF 3.1
OTH 0.7

Well, given a quota of 16.6%, it should be 2 FF; 2 FG and 1 Lab (so Lab gain from Green). But if Lab again run 2 candidates and again only manage about 50% transfer retention here, then the Greens would be reasonably well placed to snatch the final seat.

FF should be fine, even with 3 candidates. Any sort of reasonable transfer retention should put them there or thereabouts, and with even lower than average transfers from those PD votes and maybe even a few Greens, they'd have to be strong odds to take 2.

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

I don't think these are entirely mutually exclusive decisions. Yes, exposure to particular forms of media informs particular modes of thinking - but also, people are free to choose from a very wide range of media which inform opinions in very different ways. I think that people's choice of media is (to a large extent) a conscious decision and that these decisions, en masse, inform the evolving media market.

True and false. Though more so true than it was in, say, the 19th Century. Generally though I find that there is a tendenancy to rely on the media you grew up on, at least as for average people are concerned.

What I am trying to say is that within media there can be "liberal" strands or "conservative" strands and yes consumer choice plays a part in that. But what is defined as "liberalism" or "conservatism" is often defined by very media that the viewpoint is put across. SKY News and John Waters are after all two very different beasts. But both lean on the right obviously.

Are we to take it that you've been so enamoured with Maynooth, that a full time move to Kildare North is imminant?

Hey, wash your tongue.

In saying that Maynooth is probably the only town in Kildare North where I would like to live, but given that the alternative options are Naas, Celbridge, Leixlip and Kilcock the competition is hardly shining.

[Јas]

I don't think these are entirely mutually exclusive decisions. Yes, exposure to particular forms of media informs particular modes of thinking - but also, people are free to choose from a very wide range of media which inform opinions in very different ways. I think that people's choice of media is (to a large extent) a conscious decision and that these decisions, en masse, inform the evolving media market.

True and false. Though more so true than it was in, say, the 19th Century. Generally though I find that there is a tendenancy to rely on the media you grew up on, at least as for average people are concerned.

What I am trying to say is that within media there can be "liberal" strands or "conservative" strands and yes consumer choice plays a part in that. But what is defined as "liberalism" or "conservatism" is often defined by very media that the viewpoint is put across. SKY News and John Waters are after all two very different beasts. But both lean on the right obviously.

Don't be so sure about Sky News - did you not here Julie Etchingham's theories on Tory party policy earlier this week?

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

Don't be so sure about Sky News - did you not here Julie Etchingham's theories on Tory party policy earlier this week?

No. Please inform.

Of course it's hard to imagine it being more full of sh!te then your average John Waters article.. but then I'm intrigued and disgressing.

[Јas]

Don't be so sure about Sky News - did you not here Julie Etchingham's theories on Tory party policy earlier this week?

No. Please inform.

Of course it's hard to imagine it being more full of sh!te then your average John Waters article.. but then I'm intrigued and disgressing.

News Article

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

If the Calendar is correct...

Happy Birthday, Jas.

[Vasall des Midas]

Breithlá Sona Duit!

[Sibboleth]

Happy birthday

[Јas]

If the Calendar is correct...

Happy Birthday, Jas.

Thank you

Indeed the calendar is right, the Earth has just completed it's 23rd lap of that great fireball in the sky since I made my first appearance.

Breithlá Sona Duit!

Go raibh maith agat, a chara!

Happy birthday

Thanks!

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

I'd be pretty depressed If I shared your birthday given some of the events which have happened during (according to wiki):

1605 - Gunpowder Plot: A plot led by Robert Catesby to blow up the English Houses of Parliament is thwarted when Sir Thomas Knyvet, a justice of the peace, finds Guy Fawkes in a cellar below the Parliament building.
1688 - Glorious Revolution begins: William of Orange lands at Brixham.
1831 - Nat Turner, American slave leader, is tried, convicted, and sentenced to death.
1838 - The United States of Central America began to disintegrate when Nicaragua separated from the federation.
1895 - George B. Selden is granted the first U.S. patent for an automobile.
1911 - After declaring war on the Ottoman Empire on September 29, 1911, Italy annexes Tripoli and Cyrenaica.
1912 - Woodrow Wilson elected twenty-eighth President of The United States of America.
1937 - World War II: Adolf Hitler holds a secret meeting and states his plans for acquiring "living space" for the German people.
1962 - A mining accident kills 21 miners at the government-owned Kings Bay Coal Company on Svalbard, leading the Norwegian government to close the mine.
1965 - State of Emergency declared in Rhodesia after collapse of negotiations with Great Britain over Rhodesian independence (UDI would follow six days later)
1967 - The Hither Green rail crash in the United Kingdom kills 49 people. The survivors include Bee Gee Robin Gibb.
1968 - Richard M. Nixon elected as the thirty-seventh President of the United States of America.
1979 - Ayatollah Khomeini declares the USA to be "the great Satan".

Though you do Share Roy Rogers (1911) birthday; so I guess that makes up for it.

[Јas]

I'd be pretty depressed If I shared your birthday given some of the events which have happened during (according to wiki):

Well, in the words of one of the most important philosophical influences I've had:
"Well of course everything looks bad if you remember it!"

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

I'd be pretty depressed If I shared your birthday given some of the events which have happened during (according to wiki):

Well, in the words of one of the most important philosophical influences I've had:
"Well of course everything looks bad if you remember it!"

Truly an intellectual inspiration to us all.

[Јas]

As seems to be established at this stage Ireland will be the only EU state that will vote on the new (or not so new, depending on your perspective) EU Reform Treaty (because of our constitutional provisions as interpreted in Crotty v An Taoiseach).

The opinion poll cited in the previous page also questioned attitudes to the Reform Treaty. Sample 1000, MoE 3%. Pollster: tnsMRBI

In favour:	25%
Against:	12%
Don't Know/No Opinion:	62%

FTR, in the last poll re: the European Constitutional Treaty in March 2005, opinions were recorded as follows (Same pollster, sample and MoE as above):

In favour:	46%
Against:	12%
Don't Know/No Opinion:	42%

[Hashemite]

Happy Birthday

I'm happy to see Ireland in favor of the EU Reform treaty.

[Vasall des Midas]

Go raibh maith agat, a chara!

Blessed be the powers of google.

[Јas]

Happy Birthday

Thanks!

I'm happy to see Ireland in favor of the EU Reform treaty.

Well, more than anything Ireland doesn't know what to make of the treaty. It should pass, but the remarkable rag-tag alliance who come out against every EU Treaty did manage an upset on the Nice Treaty when the establishment parties failed to make their case.

Go raibh maith agat, a chara!

Blessed be the powers of google.

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

I'm not looking forward to the EU treaty campaign at all.. as much as I look forward to any referendum really. Much more full of spite and (generally useless) debate than even General elections.

I will be voting no, btw. The country will vote yes. It has been decided.

[Јas]

I'm not looking forward to the EU treaty campaign at all.. as much as I look forward to any referendum really. Much more full of spite and (generally useless) debate than even General elections.

More spite than General Elections, less than in the various social issues referenda.
(Referenda after all bring out genuine differences in political beliefs.)

I will be voting no, btw.

Dare I ask why?

I imagine it's unusual where you end up siding up with an opposition whose most vocal players are likely to be Sinn Féin, Dana, Jean Marie Le Pen (!) and *shudders* Justin Barret.

The country will vote yes. It has been decided.

If the government has learned it's lesson from Nice I, then yes. (But then this government hasn't proven itself when it comes to learning from past mistakes.)

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

Dare I ask why?

I imagine it's unusual where you end up siding up with an opposition whose most vocal players are likely to be Sinn Féin, Dana, Jean Marie Le Pen (!) and *shudders* Justin Barret.

Do not profane this post by mentioning the name "Justin Barrett" (pgfm).

As bizarre as it is to find myself on the same side as fascists, terrorists and the editing board of Alive! and The Irish Family Press it is exactly the opposite reason to that shower that I will vote no. That is the Undemocratic, centralizing nature of the European Union - which is not something I oppose per se but rather have not been very fond of in recent years. It's not I oppose taking away powers from the Irish State (actually it's something I wish could be done) but to put them into an even more bureocratic body which is even less democratic is something I think everyone interested in Democracy should opposed. But then again they might take our lattes away.

If the government has learned it's lesson from Nice I, then yes. (But then this government hasn't proven itself when it comes to learning from past mistakes.)

I think the entire arguement will be "OMG THINK OF TEH POLES!!111" - after all they did win Nice II on that logic.

Btw, I assume you being a typical social democrat of these parts will vote "yes".

[Јas]

Dare I ask why?

I imagine it's unusual where you end up siding up with an opposition whose most vocal players are likely to be Sinn Féin, Dana, Jean Marie Le Pen (!) and *shudders* Justin Barret.

Do not profane this post by mentioning the name "Justin Barrett" (pgfm).

As bizarre as it is to find myself on the same side as fascists, terrorists and the editing board of Alive!

Alive! is one of the most remarkable periodicals I've ever had the misfortune to come across. Reading it annoys me much more than can be healthy.

and The Irish Family Press it is exactly the opposite reason to that shower that I will vote no. That is the Undemocratic, centralizing nature of the European Union - which is not something I oppose per se but rather have not been very fond of in recent years. It's not I oppose taking away powers from the Irish State (actually it's something I wish could be done) but to put them into an even more bureocratic body which is even less democratic is something I think everyone interested in Democracy should opposed.

Fair points.

But then again they might take our lattes away.

If the government has learned it's lesson from Nice I, then yes. (But then this government hasn't proven itself when it comes to learning from past mistakes.)

I think the entire arguement will be "OMG THINK OF TEH POLES!!111" - after all they did win Nice II on that logic.

Yeah, I was very surprised with the way they ran that campaign - which if it was a significant  factor with voters, is an argument that Ireland voted against self-interest.

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

Alive! is one of the most remarkable periodicals I've ever had the misfortune to come across. Reading it annoys me much more than can be healthy.

On other hand I think it's Ireland's best newspaper - no newspaper can make me feel the range of emotions that Alive! does. Not always positive emotions, but hey you can't have everything.

Fair points.

Another thing you should know by now about me is that I take every opportunity to bash the Irish Political consensus whenever possible. As you probably guess this is to be the debate:

Cliche Eurosceptic douche: Ireland's National sovereignty, neutrality is to be under...
Cliche Main Party TD: (Interrupting): Yes... Think of de Keltic Tigah! Without de EU we would not have de Keltic Tigah!
Cliche Eurosceptic douche: Yes.. yes.. but Ireland and <Insert reference to Abortion, De Valera, The Catholic Church, The heroes of 1916, Hunger Strikers or that vague abstraction known as "de nation" depending on preference>
Cliche Main Party TD: Yes.. Yes.. but De Keltic Tigah!
Cliche Eurosceptic Douche: But.. But
Cliche RTE presenter: Mr TD is right, De Keltic Tigah! De Keltic Tigah! It's changed everything!11

[Јas]

Another thing you should know by now about me is that I take every opportunity to bash the Irish Political consensus whenever possible.

It's fair to say that I'm not shocked by this.

As you probably guess this is to be the debate:

Cliche Eurosceptic douche: Ireland's National sovereignty, neutrality is to be under...
Cliche Main Party TD: (Interrupting): Yes... Think of de Keltic Tigah! Without de EU we would not have de Keltic Tigah!
Cliche Eurosceptic douche: Yes.. yes.. but Ireland and <Insert reference to Abortion, De Valera, The Catholic Church, The heroes of 1916, Hunger Strikers or that vague abstraction known as "de nation" depending on preference>
Cliche Main Party TD: Yes.. Yes.. but De Keltic Tigah!
Cliche Eurosceptic Douche: But.. But
Cliche RTE presenter: Mr TD is right, De Keltic Tigah! De Keltic Tigah! It's changed everything!11

You're obviously watching too much Prime Time.

[Ghyl Tarvoke]

It's fair to say that I'm not shocked by this.

Drat at my predictability.

You're obviously watching too much Prime Time.

Nah if I had been there would have been random reference to property prices; misery porn for the polly junkies.

Too much RTE is bad for the brain... (which is why I hardly watch TeeVee any more.)

Btw You didn't answer my question:

Btw, I assume you being a typical social democrat of these parts will vote "yes"?