Ireland General Discussion

[Јas]

Another answer to an old question...

FF and FG tribal split traced back to 12th century - Irish Times

[patrick1]

Another answer to an old question...

FF and FG tribal split traced back to 12th century - Irish Times

Very interesting, I love the study of surnames so this was right up my alley.

Lets look at the Taoiseach surnames

De Valera-FF- Spanish
Costello-FG- Norman
Lemass- FF-I think Norman/French derivative- very rare name.
Lynch- FF- Norman
Cosgrave- FG- Gaelic
Haughey- FF- Gaelic
Fitzgerald- FG- Norman
Reynolds- FF- Norman
Bruton-FG- Anglo
Ahern- FF- Gaelic
Cowen-FF- Gaelic
Kenny- FG- Gaelic

Presidents
Hyde- no party- Welsh- edit. I think Hyde is actually Anglo origin
O'Kelly- FF- Gaelic
Childers- FF- Anglo
O' Dalaigh- FF- Gaelic
Hillery- FF-Anglo
Bourke- (Robinson) Labour- Norman
Leneghan- FF- Gaelic

And just because I like the topic
Pearse- Anglo
MacDermott- Gaelic
MacDonagah- Gaelic
Clarke- Anglo
Kent- Anglo
Connolly- Gaelic
Plunkett- Norman

[Јas]

The preliminary results of the Irish Census from April are now out. The population is now registered at 4,581,269 (up from 4,239,848 in 2006) - a 150 year high.

The release includes data (and maps) concerning population changes (both natural and migratory), sex ratios, the housing stock (including data on the sizable vacant housing stock).

The release presents the data that will underpin the Constituency Commission's work for the drafting of new proposed constituency boundaries at national and European level that has to be completed within 3 months of the release of the finalised data (which wil happen next April).

The Programme for Government commits to a reduction in the number of TDs. Under these figures, and noting the Constitutional limit that there must be no fewer than 1 TD per 30,000 people (and no more than 1 per 20,000), the lower limit for TDs would be 152 - a reduction of 14 (FG had been suggesting they'd like at least a reduction of 20). Hopefully I'll be able to get round to looking at possible constituency redrawings at some point.

[Tender Branson]

The preliminary results of the Irish Census from April are now out. The population is now registered at 4,581,269 (up from 4,239,848 in 2006) - a 150 year high.

The release includes data (and maps) concerning population changes (both natural and migratory), sex ratios, the housing stock (including data on the sizable vacant housing stock).

The release presents the data that will underpin the Constituency Commission's work for the drafting of new proposed constituency boundaries at national and European level that has to be completed within 3 months of the release of the finalised data (which wil happen next April).

The Programme for Government commits to a reduction in the number of TDs. Under these figures, and noting the Constitutional limit that there must be no fewer than 1 TD per 30,000 people (and no more than 1 per 20,000), the lower limit for TDs would be 152 - a reduction of 14 (FG had been suggesting they'd like at least a reduction of 20). Hopefully I'll be able to get round to looking at possible constituency redrawings at some point.

It also means that the CSO has underestimated Ireland's population by about 100.000 people for this year. Probably the emigration was not as high as originally thought and the annual growth rate of 1.8% is still one of the highest in Europe, if not the highest one.

[Јas]

The Government has suffered its first casualty since taking office.

The issue of the downgrading of services at hospitals across Ireland has been a very controversial political issue for many years now. The economic crisis has only exacerbated matters. The status of Roscommon General Hospital has been one of those that has been at issue recently. The issue was front and centre for all parties campaigning in Roscommon during the election.

Then FG Health Spokesman (and now Minister for Health), James Reilly wrote a letter to the "People of Roscommon" wherein he said, among other promises:

I would like to confirm that Fine Gael undertakes, in accordance with the Fine Gael Policy on Local Hospitals, to retain the emergency, surgical, medical and other health services at Roscommon hospital which are present on the formation of the 31st Dáil.

Reilly had the backing of his party leader, now Taoiseach, Enda Kenny...

And I don’t come down here lightly to say these words. . . You know, down in the accident and emergency [unit], what it takes and what needs to be done in your own local hospital here. And we will protect and defend that.

On the basis of such assurances, FG's candidates Frank Feighan and Denis Naughton felt secure in campaigning strongly on the issue.

With us, James Reilly and Enda Kenny the future of Roscommon hospital will be secure because we are telling the truth.

We have given a written commitment to retain services at Roscommon and to see services developed and enhanced for this county and the surrounding communities. We will take Roscommon hospital off the political agenda once and for all.

Both Feighan and Naughten were elected.


However, last week following it becoming clear that the new Government were indeed going to downgrade services at Roscommon General Hospital - an opposition motion condemning the decision was put to the House and Deputy Naughten felt compelled to side with the opposition (and can't have been unaware of the near baying crowds from Roscommon who were protesting outsdie the House). Following that, Naughten has lost the FG whip. (Feighan voted with the Government.)

FG have also had 2 Councillors from Roscommon County Council resign the whip over the same issue.


Not that the Government is anywhere close to vulnerable all told, but there are many more explicit promises out there that the Government and its Deputies made that simply cannot be kept (and should have been known that tehy could not be kept). The first casualty of the Government has been registered - but it won't be the last.


Dáil Éireann

Fine Gael	74
Fine Gael (without whip)	1	(Denis Naughten)
Labour	37
Fianna Fáil	19
Sinn Féin	14
United Left	5
Independents	14
Ceann Comhairle (Speaker)	1
Vacant	1	(Dublin West)

[Јas]

In the midst of a Presidential election campaign of course most attention goes there, but just thought I’d put in a post on a poll in today’s Irish Times putting Sinn Féin in second place in terms of overall support, surpassing both Fianna Fáil and Labour. The rise to a new record level of polling support, seems to coincide with McGuinness’s Presidential campaign, but it will be interesting to see whether they can hold onto it beyond the campaign (when we will face very quickly into another difficult budget).

	7 Oct	25 Sep	25 Feb
	I-MRBI	RedC	Election
Fine Gael	35	33	36
Labour	17	16	19
Fianna Fáil	16	15	17
Sinn Féin	18	15	10
Green	2		2
Ind/Other	12	21	15

Satisfaction Ratings

Government	36	(-1 on July)
Kenny	51	(-2)
Gilmore	42	(-2)
Adams	36	(+5)
Martin	28	(-9)
Ryan	16	(-)

[Teddy (IDS Legislator)]

Add a dozen to SF and you got something good going

[Јas]

The 3,200 page report of the Mahon Tribunal, looking into payments to politicians particularly relating planning permissions, was published today. The Tribunal was set up in 1997.

The Mahon tribunal has rejected the evidence of the former taoiseach Bertie Ahern in relation to his personal finances as mostly “untrue”.

In its final report, published today, the tribunal found that, contrary to his sworn evidence, there were no dig-outs in 1993 and 1994 for Mr Ahern and that large dollar and sterling cash lodgements were made to his bank accounts in the mid-1990s.

However, the tribunal said that because Mr Ahern did not give a true account as to the source of money that was lodged to his accounts, it has not been able to identify where the money came from.

- The Irish Times


It seems the FF leadership is going to move to expel Ahern from the party.

The report also accuses FF Ministers in 2007/08 of effectively seeking to collapse the enquiry (in their efforts to defend Ahern). How, or if, FF deal with that will be interesting.

[oakvale]

This is great fun.

[RogueBeaver]

This is great fun.

Somehow I'm not surprised that he turned out to be a corrupt sleazeball. Only unfortunate thing is that they can't indict and convict him on corruption yet. Onto the next stage: criminal investigation.

[Sibboleth]

Hahahahahaha

[ObserverIE]

The 3,200 page report of the Mahon Tribunal, looking into payments to politicians particularly relating planning permissions, was published today. The Tribunal was set up in 1997.

The Mahon tribunal has rejected the evidence of the former taoiseach Bertie Ahern in relation to his personal finances as mostly “untrue”.

In its final report, published today, the tribunal found that, contrary to his sworn evidence, there were no dig-outs in 1993 and 1994 for Mr Ahern and that large dollar and sterling cash lodgements were made to his bank accounts in the mid-1990s.

However, the tribunal said that because Mr Ahern did not give a true account as to the source of money that was lodged to his accounts, it has not been able to identify where the money came from.

- The Irish Times


It seems the FF leadership is going to move to expel Ahern from the party.

The report also accuses FF Ministers in 2007/08 of effectively seeking to collapse the enquiry (in their efforts to defend Ahern). How, or if, FF deal with that will be interesting.

Unfortunately, it doesn't name names; the three names being mentioned most often in media dispatches are:

Dermot Ahern (then Minister for Justice who B. Ahern famously sent up every tree in north County Dublin looking for evidence of planning corruption, retired at last election claiming a bad back)
Dick "Cock" Roche (oleaginous former Minister for the Environment, humiliated at last election, although not before wasting people's time with a recount that would make no difference to the final result)
Willie O'Dea (walrus-moustachioed former Minister for Justice who was forced to resign for trying to slander a political opponent and who managed to get re-elected by dint of uber-clientelism).

[Χahar]

Oh, yes, watching Dick Roche go down last time was hilarious.

[ObserverIE]

In an exclusive interview with tomorrow's Volkischer Beobachter Sunday Independent, Ahern decides to jump before he's pushed.

[Vasall des Midas]

Lmao. Bertie Ahern exposed as corrupt, expelled from FF. What next - Pope exposed as Catholic, expelled from priesthood?

[Јas]

State now morally as well as economically bankrupt, Diarmaid Ferriter, Irish Times

[Kevinstat]

Any idea when the Constituency Commission will release its report(s)?  Will there be one for European Parliament constituencies also?

[Јas]

Any idea when the Constituency Commission will release its report(s)?

The Commission is required to report to the Chairman of the Dáil no later than 3 months after the publication by Central Statistics Office of the final population results from the census.

As it happens, the publication of the final population results by the CSO was done this morning.

Will there be one for European Parliament constituencies also?

Yes. It'll be part of the same report.

[Kevinstat]

So the entire statutory range of sizes for the Dail of 153 to 160 will be constitutional (4,588,252 / 30,000 = 152.94).  The constitutional range would be 153 to 229 (4,588,252 / 20,000 = 229.41).  Can a constituency have more than 30,000 people?

[ObserverIE]

So the entire statutory range of sizes for the Dail of 153 to 160 will be constitutional (4,588,252 / 30,000 = 152.94).  The constitutional range would be 153 to 229 (4,588,252 / 20,000 = 229.41).  Can a constituency have more than 30,000 people?

There has been a tolerance of about 8% from the national average in either direction allowed in the past. In the 80s, this would have produced some constituency averages under 20,000, so I don't suppose that a few constituency averages above 30,000 would be a problem.

[Јas]

Can a constituency have more than 30,000 people?

Yes. At least in theory, and subject to Article 16.2.3 of the Constitution.

The mandate in the Constitution isn't that any particular constituency must have at least 20,000 people per TD or at most 30,000, but rather:

2. The number of members shall from time to time be fixed by law, but the total number of members of Dáil Eireann shall not be fixed at less than one member for each thirty thousand of the population, or at more than one member for each twenty thousand of the population.

3. The ratio between the number of members to be elected at any time for each constituency and the population of each constituency, as ascertained at the last preceding census, shall, so far as it is practicable, be the same throughout the country.

The Supreme Court have interpreted this as follows:

The subclause (i.e. Article 16.2.3) recognises that exact parity in the ratio between members and the population of each constituency is unlikely to be obtained and is not required.

The decision as to what is practicable is within the jurisdiction of the Oireachtas. It may reasonably take into consideration a variety of factors, such as the desirability so far as possible to adhere to well-known boundaries such as those of counties, townlands and electoral divisions. The existence of divisions created by such physical features as rivers, lakes and mountains may also have to be reckoned with.

The problem of what is practicable is primarily one for the Oireachtas, whose members have knowledge of the problems and difficulties to be solved which this Court cannot have. Its decision should not be reviewed by this Court unless there is a manifest infringement of the Article.

This Court cannot, as is suggested, lay down a figure above or below which a variation from what is called the national average is not permitted.

So, yes, I'd say over 30,000 could be permissible - but it would depend on the context of the decision.

[ilikeverin]

Mary Robinson is speaking at MSU's commencement this spring (when I'm graduating)... should I go?

[Јas]

Ireland got it's 3rd 'out' gay TD today. Jerry Buttimer (FG-Cork SC) is the first non-Labour member of the club.

Mary Robinson is speaking at MSU's commencement this spring (when I'm graduating)... should I go?

I would. Do give an update if you go.

[Јas]

Number of TDs to be cut by eight in commission proposal

THE NUMBER of TDs in the Dáil is expected to be reduced by eight to 158 on the recommendation of the Constituency Commission, which is due to report next month.

The commission will recommend wholesale changes to boundaries, with Dublin, Munster and Connacht-Ulster each losing three seats and Leinster outside Dublin gaining one.

The changes will cause upheaval in all parties, particularly when taken in tandem with the fresh legal requirement that each party must nominate women as 30 per cent of its candidates in the next election.

...

It is understood that the commission has almost completed its work and its report will be published in the middle of next month.

The reduction of three seats in Munster will come about through consolidation of the two three-seat constituencies in Kerry into one five-seater. The same process will take place in Tipperary, where one five-seat constituency will replace two three-seaters.

Cork will also lose a seat, with the likelihood of Cork South Central being reduced from a five- to a four-seater with readjustment of a number of boundaries in the surrounding constituencies.

The three-seat reduction in Connacht-Ulster will come about through merging two Donegal three-seaters into one five-seater and the five-seat Cavan Monaghan being reduced to a four-seater.

The third seat in the region to go will be in either Galway or Mayo, with the eastern portion of one of those counties being merged with Roscommon. In tandem with that, the old Sligo-Leitrim constituency will be restored, ending the partition of Leitrim for electoral purposes.

The reduction of three seats in Dublin will be achieved through extensive changes to boundaries.

Two seats are likely to go on the north side of the city, with an extensive redrawing of constituencies like Dublin North Central, Dublin North West, Dublin Central and Dublin West.

One seat is expected to go on the south side, with the most likely outcome being the reduction of Dublin South Central from a five- to a four-seater. But there is also a possibility that Dún Laoghaire could be reduced from a four- to a three-seater.

Laois-Offaly is certain to gain a seat in the revision, with the current five-seat constituency being broken up to form two three-seaters.

The census showed that the existing Laois-Offaly constituency has the highest ratio of population to Dáil deputy at 30,565, followed by the three-seat Kildare South and the four-seat Kildare North, which are marginally over the 30,000 limit.

Both of those constituencies are likely to lose territory as a result.

According to article 16 of the Constitution, the ratio of population to TD has to be between 20,000 and 30,000. While in opposition, Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny pledged to cut the size of the Dáil by 20 seats to 146, but that would require a constitutional referendum as it would have left a ratio of more than 31,000.

With 158 TDs, the ratio would be 29,039, the closest to the limit since the adoption of the 1937 Constitution.

...

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0525/1224316665453.html

[argentarius]

Ireland got it's 3rd 'out' gay TD today. Jerry Buttimer (FG-Cork SC) is the first non-Labour member of the club.

Mary Robinson is speaking at MSU's commencement this spring (when I'm graduating)... should I go?

I would. Do give an update if you go.

Why yes he did come across as gay when I was talking to him before that.