Judaism

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Today I had a bagel to celebrate.

I have a bagel everyday, but today's was celebratory

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

Happy Rosh Hashanah everyone!  Leshana Tova

right back atcha!

[Senator Ben]

Yom Kippur starts in just over an hour; last pre-fast meal for me soon.  I wish everyone here an easy Fast, and a thoughtful Day of Atonement.

[Senator Ben]

Happy חֲנֻכָּה‎, everyone!

[Senator Ben]

Shavuot (and my own confirmation) are fast approaching!  Only 9 more days!

[The Mikado]

Shavuot (and my own confirmation) are fast approaching!  Only 9 more days!

You staying up to read Ruth?

[Senator Ben]

Shavuot (and my own confirmation) are fast approaching!  Only 9 more days!

You staying up to read Ruth?

I might, actually.  It depends on how much work I have that night after the Confirmation Service.

[Senator Ben]

Happy Rosh Hashanah everyone!  Leshana Tova   Here's to 5771!

[Senator Ben]

It's now Yom Kippur; hopefully everyone will have a thoughtful Day of Atonement and an easy fast.

[The Mikado]

Good luck, Ben.  I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore, but nonetheless...

If I've offended anyone here this past year, sorry.

[Grad Students are the Worst]

Good luck, Ben.  I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore, but nonetheless...

If I've offended anyone here this past year, sorry.

Are you Jewish?

"I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore" kind of suggests that if he was, he isn't, no?

[dead0man]

Well, to be fair one can be a Jew and not "Jewish".

[The Mikado]

Good luck, Ben.  I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore, but nonetheless...

If I've offended anyone here this past year, sorry.

Are you Jewish?

"I'm glad I don't have to put up with all that stuff anymore" kind of suggests that if he was, he isn't, no?

Alcon said it.  I'm an ex-Jew.  I'm a nothing, now.

[Senator Ben]

Passover 2011 is less than a month away!

[Senator Ben]

And Passover 2011 has started!

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

been reading parts of the Talmud, its amazing how Judaism became a religion that has to attempt to dissect and add instructions to the nth degree so that the instructions themselves become the center of focus.  no wonder Jesus had problems with all that it became.

[danny]

been reading parts of the Talmud, its amazing how Judaism became a religion that has to attempt to dissect and add instructions to the nth degree so that the instructions themselves become the center of focus.  no wonder Jesus had problems with all that it became.

The funny thing is that Jews now go to great lengths to find loopholes in those instructions.

[True Federalist]

been reading parts of the Talmud, its amazing how Judaism became a religion that has to attempt to dissect and add instructions to the nth degree so that the instructions themselves become the center of focus.

Not amazing at all.  Judaism could not have survived as a Temple-centric religion after the destruction of the Second Temple.  Both Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism found a substitute for the Temple.  For one it was the Body of Christ, and for the other it was the Body of the Law. Unless your theology is a hyper-supersessionism that posits that there are no further prophecies for the Jews to fulfill as Jews, then there must be some mechanism for Judaism to survive.

[Senator Ben]

been reading parts of the Talmud, its amazing how Judaism became a religion that has to attempt to dissect and add instructions to the nth degree so that the instructions themselves become the center of focus.  no wonder Jesus had problems with all that it became.

Uh huh.  Sure.

[A cowboy always follows his beard]

So, why don't Jews sacrifice lambs anymore?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

been reading parts of the Talmud, its amazing how Judaism became a religion that has to attempt to dissect and add instructions to the nth degree so that the instructions themselves become the center of focus.

Not amazing at all.  Judaism could not have survived as a Temple-centric religion after the destruction of the Second Temple.  Both Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism found a substitute for the Temple.  For one it was the Body of Christ, and for the other it was the Body of the Law.

 

but Christianity found a substitute BEFORE the Temple was destroyed, which is one of the reasons why Jesus was thought to be a heretic.  but I wasn't talking about nonTempleCentric religion, rather I was talking about all the details involved in the oral tradition even as it relates to parts of the law that dont have anything to do with the Temple.

example:  the scripture might say, "dont eat strangled animals", and Judaism will turn that command into a whole system of a supposed single proper way to kill an animal and include a long list of instructions the scripture said nothing about.

If, hypothetically, God had said, "Dont wear the color green, "  the Talmud would have a set of 50 instructions on how you're to wear the color blue and wallow around in and glorify the 50 rules of wearing blue it had created and pat each other on the back for abiding by the 50 rules of the color blue, when all God said was,  "Dont wear the color green. " 

This is why Jesus had so many problems and squabbles with what Judaism had turned into to
.
---

Unless your theology is a hyper-supersessionism that posits that there are no further prophecies for the Jews to fulfill as Jews, then there must be some mechanism for Judaism to survive.

 

well, if I can be blunt in order to save time: for prophecy to be fulfilled, the Jews had to reject Christ.  And Judaism is probably going to have to revert back to Temple worship, which means there is a bunch of very heavy stuff that is going to have to happen to the Jews - they're going to have to be convinced the Messiah has come, but it will be a false Messiah - the antiChrist.  But the Jews will understand they have been deceived by the antiChrist and will realize they missed the true Messiah, Jesus and will turn and accept Christ and God will forgive them:

Zechariah 12:10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son."

Revelation 1:7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,” and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.” So shall it be! Amen.

Rom 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

That's why Satan always wants to destroy the Jews - for if there are no Jews, prophesy can not be fulfilled.

[bullmoose88]

So, as long as there isn't a third temple...there can't be an apocalypse right?  Thats an absolutely necessary condition?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

So, as long as there isn't a third temple...there can't be an apocalypse right?  Thats an absolutely necessary condition?

well, I never turn endtime interpretation into hard doctrine, for endtime prophecy is the single area of scripture that will be more understood as time goes on:

Daniel 12:4,9
But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”...“Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end."

But I am about 99% convinced that the pre-trib theory is wrong (not that it impact your temple question), and I am 95% convinced that the references to the Temple during the endtimes is in reference to a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem.
But I am not going to split hairs over either issue.  In fact, probably the majority of my church is pre-trib, which is partly the fault of my pastor, who isnt pretrib yet couches much of his teachings in a way that is accommodating to different views.

About a dozen of so years ago I was conducting an endtime study series in our church, and I laid out about 3 or 4 of the competing points of view (pre, mid, post trib, etc) and pointed out the strengths and weaknesses of each, not knowing our church was majority pretrib.  And my series received so much opposition I went to my pastor perplexed because I thought what I was teaching was in line with what he believed and taught, and the conversation went something like this:

pastor:  "I also am all but completely convinced the pretrib rapture is wrong, rather I believe that the church will undergo persecution by the antiChrist, and that the antiChrist will be seating in Jerusalem proclaiming himself to be God prior to the rapture."

me:  "and that is exactly how I perceived your understand based on your sermons.  But how can I sit and listen to your sermons and hear one thing, and others sit and listen to the exact same sermons over the years and hear something completely different?!"

pastor: "because I purposely present it in a way that is accommodating to different views"

me: "[but that is dishonest and you're a coward for not making clear what you believe is true]"

pastor:  "no, rather is wise to be vague when discussing a subject not worth splitting hairs over, after all, it isnt a salvational issue"

LOL.  And, I must admit, he is right.

[Senator Ben]

So, why don't Jews sacrifice lambs anymore?

We can't without the Temple.

If, hypothetically, God had said, "Dont wear the color green, "  the Talmud would have a set of 50 instructions on how you're to wear the color blue and wallow around in and glorify the 50 rules of wearing blue it had created and pat each other on the back for abiding by the 50 rules of the color blue, when all God said was,  "Dont wear the color green. " 

That is one of the most ridiculous distortions of the Talmud I have ever heard, including the anti-Semitic stuff that's been passed around.  There is nothing of that in the Talmud - it is a codification of decisions, not the rules for the sake of rules that you claim it to be.  If you're going to try and be subtly anti-Semitic, try to be more subtle.

[patrick1]

So, why don't Jews sacrifice lambs anymore?

We can't without the Temple.

If, hypothetically, God had said, "Dont wear the color green, "  the Talmud would have a set of 50 instructions on how you're to wear the color blue and wallow around in and glorify the 50 rules of wearing blue it had created and pat each other on the back for abiding by the 50 rules of the color blue, when all God said was,  "Dont wear the color green. "  

That is one of the most ridiculous distortions of the Talmud I have ever heard, including the anti-Semitic stuff that's been passed around.  There is nothing of that in the Talmud - it is a codification of decisions, not the rules for the sake of rules that you claim it to be.  If you're going to try and be subtly anti-Semitic, try to be more subtle.

How is this antisemitic? As you say, these are decisions that were based on the law? Interpretations of law (Human or divine) are bound to have meandering arguments and particularly so in the middle ages. Catholic medieval philosophical arguments; typified by scholasticism, were frequently ridiculous. The most infamous example being- how many angels can dance on the head of a needle? I don't think that pointing out that many of these arguments were mundane and cumbersome is in any way anti Catholic.

You seem to be presuming antisemitism. I respectfully think you need to put it back in the deck.